How Bumpers are made, Paint Matched and Questions for FbodFather

[rays]

Disclaimer
Most of us have seen the mismatched paint threads and the heated debate.
Please don't turn this thread into that debate. I think this issue is important. I don't want to have this thread closed as a "We've been down this road before dang it, closed"

Now, that being said, I just so happen to have access to some expert testimony about the whole process I'd like to share.
My source (My Father) has 30 years experience as the head of Quality Control for Baileys and later Emhart in NH. A company that made bumpers for GM Ford and Chrysler for many years. Not where they make the bumpers now but things should not be all that different. I spent some time today discussing this with him and showed him the pictures I took and ones from the other threads.

Way back in the beginning the bumpers used to be made of EPDM but they had too many problems with shrinking so they now use Eurethane

Ok the process

1. The Urethane bumpers are injection molded.
2. After coming out of the mold they sit for a while to stabilize.
3. They go through a bath to clean off any residue.
4. They are then primed and run through an oven
5. They are painted per customer spec (GM Ford etc) and run through an oven again.

Ok so he was in Quality so thats what I wanted to talk about.

He could spend weeks explaining how the bumpers are inspected for fit. We'll skip over that.

So how do they make sure the Paint they apply matches the rest of the car when assembled?

The Paint inspection happens in the Light Room.
They get the specs from GM (they are really detailed) on how the paint is supposed to match in a broad variety of lighting conditions. They get master paint chips from GM and match them according to those detailed specs. They vary the lighting which is meant to simulate light from different times of the day, shade sun rain, whatever else is in the spec.
If it turns out they don't match for whatever reason on a given lot, they strip the paint off and start over.

I attached the pictures I showed to my source. Not cluttering the thread with them or start a debate so I zipped them up. mismatch.zip Download them if you need to see them again. Obviously not all cars look like this.
So after he explained how it all was done I showed him the pictures and this is what he said:

"Looks like these cars were painted in the dark, the paint match is terrible."

So,
My questions to FbodFather are: Is the above still accurate for current manufacturing? Does GM recognize a quality issue with the paint matching of the front bumper? Is anybody aware and/or looking into the issues reported on these forums about it?
Shed some light on these paint issues please.

Please don't reply with a debate about it being a non Issue. I'd like to see what FbodFather has to say. Thanks!

[KJS]

Interesting info. I doubt that Fbodfather is the person this question should be addressed to, but interesting comment from your dad. (PS I wouldn't open the zip file. I've seen quite of few of the pix on this forum)

[hiway61revisted]

hey rays, delete your porn from zip file ( after I download it,lol)

[rays]

Originally Posted by KJS

Interesting info. I doubt that Fbodfather is the person this question should be addressed to, but interesting comment from your dad. (PS couldn't open the zip file, but I've seen quite of few of the pix on this forum)

Do you know who could answer then if not him?

Originally Posted by hiway61revisted

hey rays, delete your porn from zip file ( after I download it,lol)

You got me. I had to go check to make sure.

[catmaster1]

I couldn't open file either

[1976Bee]

Pr0n?

[Supermans]

If it really goes thru that much inspection after painting and they let them ship, it must mean there is a problem with the "master paint chips" being used for testing being different or not matching exactly the paint guns results at the plant. The mistake might be happening at the plant with the actual painting of the car not being exactly up to specs while the bumper is coming out of the bumper plant accurately.. Interesting..

[Vash]

Originally Posted by Supermans

If it really goes thru that much inspection after painting and they let them ship, it must mean there is a problem with the "master paint chips" being used for testing being different or not matching exactly the paint guns results at the plant. The mistake might be happening at the plant with the actual painting of the car not being exactly up to specs while the bumper is coming out of the bumper plant accurately.. Interesting..

I don't think they change paint and it's sprayed and cured at the same time.

It's the material surfaces that make the reflection and refraction diffrent.

By applying a primer base you make both surfaces more even texture and light wise.

[rays]

Use Firefox if you want to download the zip. IE seems to have a problem doing that. For some reason its corrupted when it goes through IE.

[TJ91]

this is the thread i have been waiting for.
Thanks rays, hope to see some progress through this thread.

[CWI]

Just a hunch, but i'm pretty sure Scott has seen the threads or knows of the painted bumper QC issue. Either way GM QC has got to know about it and doing whatever they can to remedy the problem. I would also suspect they will take care of the customers that have paint issues. It may just take some time with the current state of things at GM. They have spent a great deal of time making the early VIN cars right so they could be delivered, so their QC people should have more time to spend on any current issues. I think the people that need to know do know. Just don't count on getting acknowledgement of that.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Vash

I don't think they change paint and it's sprayed and cured at the same time.

It's the material surfaces that make the reflection and refraction diffrent.

By applying a primer base you make both surfaces more even texture and light wise.

It I never said it had anything to do with changed paint or whether it is cured at the same time. What I did say in my post above is that at the bumper supplier location, they have "master paint chips" being used for testing and they emulate different light reflections to see if they match. Now apparently this could mean that they (at the bumper plant) are doing things correctly and the bumpers match perfectly with what they have been given or not. If they are doing things correctly, then the problem lies with the master paint chips they were given or the problem lies at the Canada plants painting of the car. Either way, some of these paint jobs don't match up and some do.. I am optimistic that GM and the suppliers are working on this issue for future models and hopefully as you say GM will fix or replace bumpers that are affected and shipped out already. However GM has no acknowledged up to this point that there is even a problem. Hence we have GTHAVIT closing down all the threads that have popped up with pictures showing this problem. Obviously the problem is not isolated and does exist. Now it is GM's responsibility to fix the problem secretly if they wish however I do believe it is their duty to help fix those bumpers that have a problem and missed QC for some reason.

[Lauryn200]

There's an orange one here at my job (display),that the front and rear bumpers seems to be a lighter orange than the rest of the vehicle.Did not notice it on the silver camaro they had there last week.They change the camaro's here every week or so.....like the other two display cars..Malibu and some sort of crossover...

Noticed it in early morning sun and afternoon sunlight.....

[Number 3]

EVERY car I've looked at matches if you stand directly over the two panels. It only looks different when you look from an angle where the light reflects differently. This same phenomena happens across the hood in the photos as well, but you don't notice it. I am sure this is why it is passing any color match test, because the colors match.

But please be correct and quit calling this the bumper. It is the fascia. The bumper is a large beam that runs side to side under the fascia and adds structure to your cars.

Sorry, it's just my pet peeve. You guys can continue the debate, just do so correctly.

From my experience with Corvette, the process outlined is pretty close except the body panels installed in the body shop are painted at Bowling Green. Electrostatic primer is applied to those parts. Fascias, I believe come in painted just like the Camaro.

Painted in the dark is meaningless comment, even though they may LOOK like it. The parts go through inspection and color match is one of those inspections. I would also suggest that the suppliers do a color check prior to parts being shipped to Oshawa. So, although I can't state as fact, I have to believe the parts are matching in the current inspections.

Also, as the rear fascia is painted the same way with the same paint as the front, why do they match? Because the angle is different in the photos. I can't say for sure, but it is very likely the front and rear fascias come from the same supplier using the same process. That would be interesting to confirm. Because no one concerned about rear fascia mismatch.

BTW, where is the first Camaro5 member who has a car and has taken it back for warranty repair? I can only recall one post so far. What are you guys being told. This constant speculation over photos is getting tiresome.