LS3 tear down finding at 50k, 20k with GPI SS3 Cam, bushed trunnions, etc

[1JEWLDSSRS]

Well guys, after a nice educating/informative chat with Andrew yesterday, I decided what I'm going to do. Going to take the Camaro up to the shop here real soon and we are going to pull the rockers and inspect them for wear in the pushrod cups and the tip that rides on the valve top, if they look alright were going to press out the Smith Brothers bushings and inspect them for wear and replace them with the CHE trunnions this time around, and see how they run and react in the valve train.Not sure if I will notice anything or not, but just the same going to use them anyway to see how they are. If the rockers show too much wear, going to replace them with the GPI set that comes with the CHE's installed, and go from there. After we inspect the Smith Brothers bushings for wear, I will take some pics and post them up. As Andrew said about the CHE's, they just look like they would maybe last longer. We'll see. More to come. Thanks Andrew!! I appreciate you and your help. We all do!!

[demonspeed]

To be honest, I didn’t know the CHE were a different design

[1JEWLDSSRS]

Originally Posted by demonspeed

To be honest, I didn’t know the CHE were a different design

Yea,they just look like they would be nice and smooth, with better oiling and allow better recipricating function of the rocker travel. And easier to install, they just slip in and held with the spring clip, no pressing like the Smith's..

[Falfan]

Keeping my eyes peeled on this post , as this che bushings were going to be my next purchase so I could avoid needle bearings throughout me engine ...now I'm unsure how wise it is.

[demonspeed]

Originally Posted by Falfan

Keeping my eyes peeled on this post , as this che bushings were going to be my next purchase so I could avoid needle bearings throughout me engine ...now I'm unsure how wise it is.

Keep in mind BTR uses upgraded needle bearings for their trunnion kits and shaft mount kit. Katech, LPE, LGM, GM all use needle bearings on their race engines…

Somewhere about 10 years ago an incessant paranoia sprang up about the bearings. No one ever worried about rockers back in the late 90’s/early 00’s, not even when the donkey dick cams we’re hitting the market - it just wasn’t something we worried about.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by Falfan

Keeping my eyes peeled on this post , as this che bushings were going to be my next purchase so I could avoid needle bearings throughout me engine ...now I'm unsure how wise it is.

You have nothing to worry about with any of the bushed trunnion options. This isn't a dig at Smith Bros. in any way - I'm completely satisfied with their part and how it performed. It did exactly what it was supposed to do. A bronze bushing, in any application, should be considered a wear item. For this application, replacing a roller bearing on a rocker arm that's also now seeing more lift, more rpm, and more spring pressure, it's very reasonable to expect that part to wear over time. I see no reason why it should last the life of an aftermarket dual valve spring - and probably the safest plan there is to inspect and replace as needed when doing valve spring maintenance.

Like 1JEWLDSSRS and I discussed on the phone the other day, the CHE is a full floating design, and has a different oiling strategy than the Smith Bros. Mostly, the only real benefit there is probably that it's easier to install without having to press in and out trunnions. However, there may be some benefit to the full floating design having the ability to migrate around and let high load wear surface (bottom of the bushing) see the entire bushing, rather than being fixed to the rocker. They may not do that once they have spring pressure on them anyways, so that might be moot. It'll be interesting to see how 1JEWLDSSRS's parts look with close to 30k on them. If they are are clean, then I think we can say the CHE is a decisive advantage, but I would guess they'll be showing some wear, just like the Smith Bros.

[Falfan]

Originally Posted by demonspeed

Keep in mind BTR uses upgraded needle bearings for their trunnion kits and shaft mount kit. Katech, LPE, LGM, GM all use needle bearings on their race engines…

Somewhere about 10 years ago an incessant paranoia sprang up about the bearings. No one ever worried about rockers back in the late 90’s/early 00’s, not even when the donkey dick cams we’re hitting the market - it just wasn’t something we worried about.

Yeah , I know you're right , I was wrenching on 70s engines in the 90s though lop, and I remember a thread about a couple Aftermarket rockers used a different design to capture _hold in place their needle bearings, and they were said to be ok ...can't remember what brand though , maybe that's the way to go ifk, don't track my car , but "spirited" driving is normal.
Thanks for the input.

[Falfan]

ACAMMER, also good point about being a wear part , guess it'not a big deal to check/replace while replacing valve springs at their recommended milage , decisions, decisions ...lol

[morepowerjoe]

Hey Andrew, sorry for the off topic question but when do you recommend changing the valve springs on a SS1 vvt cam? I currently have the pac .660 springs. Thanks

Joseph

[acammer]

Originally Posted by morepowerjoe

Hey Andrew, sorry for the off topic question but when do you recommend changing the valve springs on a SS1 vvt cam? I currently have the pac .660 springs. Thanks

Joseph

I would check a couple springs (at least 1 intake and 1 exhuast) at 20k miles of use, and then every 5k or so there-after. Get them in a spring pressure checker, and make sure you're getting the open and closed pressures you should be, and replace when they are no longer producing the pressure they should. You should be able to look up the open and closed pressures with the part number.

[1JEWLDSSRS]

Originally Posted by acammer

You have nothing to worry about with any of the bushed trunnion options. This isn't a dig at Smith Bros. in any way - I'm completely satisfied with their part and how it performed. It did exactly what it was supposed to do. A bronze bushing, in any application, should be considered a wear item. For this application, replacing a roller bearing on a rocker arm that's also now seeing more lift, more rpm, and more spring pressure, it's very reasonable to expect that part to wear over time. I see no reason why it should last the life of an aftermarket dual valve spring - and probably the safest plan there is to inspect and replace as needed when doing valve spring maintenance.

Like 1JEWLDSSRS and I discussed on the phone the other day, the CHE is a full floating design, and has a different oiling strategy than the Smith Bros. Mostly, the only real benefit there is probably that it's easier to install without having to press in and out trunnions. However, there may be some benefit to the full floating design having the ability to migrate around and let high load wear surface (bottom of the bushing) see the entire bushing, rather than being fixed to the rocker. They may not do that once they have spring pressure on them anyways, so that might be moot. It'll be interesting to see how 1JEWLDSSRS's parts look with close to 30k on them. If they are are clean, then I think we can say the CHE is a decisive advantage, but I would guess they'll be showing some wear, just like the Smith Bros.

Hey Andrew, don't forget I have the Smith Brothers coming out, and the CHE's going in...

[acammer]

Originally Posted by 1JEWLDSSRS

Hey Andrew, don't forget I have the Smith Brothers coming out, and the CHE's going in...

Excellent point - I think I assumed (mistakenly) that you had CHE before we ended up chatting directly. It will be a good data point with your mileage being right in between my own and demonspeeds to see how your wear looked. All have seen the same sort of spring pressure and similar life. Demonspeed's probably lived the hardest life doing road course stuff.

[demonspeed]

Originally Posted by acammer

Demonspeed's probably lived the hardest life doing road course stuff.

I’d like to think [hope?] mine is an anomaly in the grand scheme of things.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by demonspeed

I’d like to think [hope?] mine is an anomaly in the grand scheme of things.

Yea - I don't think your wear is that much of an anomaly, just a magnification of what can happen if you really let these things go unchecked for probably close to double what their expected service life should be.

Your engine failure as a result, I think absolutely an anomaly. I don't think there is any really good evidence that you had any piston to valve contact outside of the hole that spate out the ringland - you have a genuine mystery that will probably go on unsolved indefinitely. I have some rear end parts that I'd like to hear the full story on, but will never hear it!

Regardless, I think we all can agree, the simple, easy, and prudent thing to do is actually just pull a couple apart whenever you do valve springs - and just like springs, if they are ready for retirement, get 'em replaced.