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Old 09-02-2012, 04:45 PM   #2017
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"Not-so-far departure from the current LS family" and a smallish HP increase might not rule out variable valve timing , , ,


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Old 09-02-2012, 05:24 PM   #2018
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News Flash!

The Gen-5 SBC aka "LT1" is NOT OHC...it is, in fact, a not-so-far departure from the current LS family without a "raised cam". In fact, with 1-point higher CR combined with DI and slightly canted valves, expect maybe a 10% hp increase...maybe less...in n/a 6.2L form...

So, for Camaro comrades, is it likely to see the light of day in a "special" Gen-5 Camaro (MY '14), or will it be held as Zee engine of choice in Gen-6 (Alpha-based) versions? Why?

Discuss...
Wow... So less than a 10% HP gain? What's the point of all that work? Will there be much of a MPG bump?
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:28 PM   #2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
News Flash!

The Gen-5 SBC aka "LT1" is NOT OHC...it is, in fact, a not-so-far departure from the current LS family without a "raised cam". In fact, with 1-point higher CR combined with DI and slightly canted valves, expect maybe a 10% hp increase...maybe less...in n/a 6.2L form...

So, for Camaro comrades, is it likely to see the light of day in a "special" Gen-5 Camaro (MY '14), or will it be held as Zee engine of choice in Gen-6 (Alpha-based) versions? Why?

Discuss...
Yes I knew that, I was simply commenting on whether or not Chevy was likely to do a "one-off" or exotic design for a Z/28. I would not rule out the possibility of seeing the LT1 in a 5th gen Camaro once it has been introduced in the Vette, I think we'll ceratinly see it in the 6th gen Camaro.
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:40 PM   #2020
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Thinking out loud....

The costs of a tweaked motor, aside from something like a revised air intake, exhaust revision or a slightly more aggressive cal delivering 10 to 20 HP, or an exotic motor for a 18 month production run are mostly likely the end of that discussion before it starts. I may be wrong, but the only ready to go motor for a Z/28 is the LS7. It is our last best hope.

The C7 2014 Vette with the 5.5 DI debuts sometime in the second half of 2013. I believe they will let the C7 run with the performance version of the DI technology for at least the first model year pushing the debut of a 2015 DI Camaro into late 2014. That would have a DI powered Z/28 available for maybe 8 months?

An LS7 powered Z/28 could be released in the second quarter of 2013 when the Corvette will no longer be using it. That gives the Z/28 a solid 18 month run to the launch of the 2016 Camaro and allows LS7 production run a year longer. With all the tooling and and development costs depreciated out, LS7 production for a production car should be profitable at a reasonable cost. The sticking points are EPA and CAFE.
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:14 PM   #2021
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We don't care about stepping on toes. Build a Z/28 my way and we'll have a NA Z/28 that out runs the BOSS, GT500 and ZL1 on a road course.
...what he said..................
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:05 PM   #2022
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Thinking out loud....

The costs of a tweaked motor, aside from something like a revised air intake, exhaust revision or a slightly more aggressive cal delivering 10 to 20 HP, or an exotic motor for a 18 month production run are mostly likely the end of that discussion before it starts. I may be wrong, but the only ready to go motor for a Z/28 is the LS7. It is our last best hope.

The C7 2014 Vette with the 5.5 DI debuts sometime in the second half of 2013. I believe they will let the C7 run with the performance version of the DI technology for at least the first model year pushing the debut of a 2015 DI Camaro into late 2014. That would have a DI powered Z/28 available for maybe 8 months?

An LS7 powered Z/28 could be released in the second quarter of 2013 when the Corvette will no longer be using it. That gives the Z/28 a solid 18 month run to the launch of the 2016 Camaro and allows LS7 production run a year longer. With all the tooling and and development costs depreciated out, LS7 production for a production car should be profitable at a reasonable cost. The sticking points are EPA and CAFE.
To me the Z28/LS7 just makes a great business case.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:33 PM   #2023
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Wow... So less than a 10% HP gain? What's the point of all that work? Will there be much of a MPG bump?
To me it's the application that's important. They could even reduce horsepower if it helped MPG improve signifigantly. It would have to be more of an increase than what we see with the L99. Horsepower increase is great for Z28 but not really needed in an SS, if that's going to be the volume performance model for the sixth gen.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:54 PM   #2024
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To me it's the application that's important. They could even reduce horsepower if it helped MPG improve signifigantly. It would have to be more of an increase than what we see with the L99. Horsepower increase is great for Z28 but not really needed in an SS, if that's going to be the volume performance model for the sixth gen.
Honestly I think the SS should get dropped for the 6th gen. Have a base V8 with a N/A small displacement, Z/28 with a N/A larger displacement and ZL1 with S/C large displacement. Calling the base V8 the SS was just as bad as calling it the Z/28.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:06 PM   #2025
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Honestly I think the SS should get dropped for the 6th gen. Have a base V8 with a N/A small displacement, Z/28 with a N/A larger displacement and ZL1 with S/C large displacement. Calling the base V8 the SS was just as bad as calling it the Z/28.
The V6 is more than comparable with the base 1Gen Camaro. Naming the V8 an SS makes sense. And now you can add a 1LE package to it making it a very very capable car. V6, SS, SS/1LE, Z28 & ZL1 perfect upgradeability for the Camaro enthusiast!
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:04 PM   #2026
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Honestly I think the SS should get dropped for the 6th gen. Have a base V8 with a N/A small displacement, Z/28 with a N/A larger displacement and ZL1 with S/C large displacement. Calling the base V8 the SS was just as bad as calling it the Z/28.
I don't really see a problem with the base V8 being the SS, especially given that the number of V8 choices is not that widespread. In the first gen it would have been illogical as there were 327/210hp, 327/275hp (both of which were replaced in '69 by other low hp engines) and then the base SS of 350/295hp (300hp in '69), SS396 in 325, 350, and 375hp versions and the Z/28. Let's face it, the number of engine choices are down in this day and age, I think that's why it sometimes happens that a version like the SS would be the base V8.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:32 PM   #2027
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Uhhhh yeah, maybe a performance upgrade for the ZL1 would be the LS9..who thinks this stuff up? It's a given, all along the hopefuls, the Z/28 has to be naturally aspirated, and to answer the question Bhobbs, the 13k difference comes into play because everyone keeps whining that they want the LS7 in the car instead of holding GM down and making them give us an engine with some tech in it and R&D with 480-500 hp without needing 7.0 liters to do it in!!
I'd rather they use 7L to get 500 hp than wind out a small displacement engine to hit the same peak hp value

Why do you feel otherwise?
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:24 PM   #2028
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Guys, I don't mind the LS7 thought of use, I just keep saying that I guess I am jealous that the Camaro gets the left overs it seems. Would an LS7 powered Camaro be amazing? Easy answer, yes! Why does the Corvette get all the fun? Why should we have to wait for the Corvette to be done using an engine so us Z/28 hopefuls get a slice of the pie? My other question has been, why can other auto makers squeeze out comparable HP with 5 liters to our 6.2L or 7L with only 5? If the reason GM decides not to do a 5th Gen Z/28 I will be really disappointed..if it is cost of the LS7 that doesn't make the car marketable in their eyes, then I say do without, but give me a motor in its place with some new tech that is spread out over many other lines and regular production and let it have at least 475HP NA!
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:30 PM   #2029
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Look at the glass half full...we get the Corvette engine(s) in the Camaro!
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:28 AM   #2030
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I'd rather they use 7L to get 500 hp than wind out a small displacement engine to hit the same peak hp value

Why do you feel otherwise?
For me, it's a matter of going all the way back to the Z/28's origins. The original Z/28 was all about doing more with less. Never mind the low end and lower midrange sacrifices. That was part of the appeal - it wasn't intended to be grocery-getter easy to drive and you'd have to drive it a little harder most of the time. To fully appreciate it long-term, you had to be an enthusiast, not a just-wanna-look-like-one.

As far as I'm concerned, the character of the Z/28 softened a little when SCCA allowed the manufacturers to derive their 5.0 liters from engines of larger displacement and Chevy went straight to the 350 for production. Sure, it was a better daily driver and arguably more flexible out on the track that way. But it wasn't the same.


Could a confluence between the Z/28's original makeup and the upcoming CAFE pressures possibly happen???


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