Clay then polish?

[IPT]

I was reading the detailing instructions and it recommends to clay and then polish. Seems counter intuitive. If a polish is used to get out superficial imperfections it must be going deep. Why the need for claying first? Seems like polishing would do the same if not better and deeper. What am I missing?

While on that topic, I am interested in getting a machine like the Flex or PC one. I'm a relative newbie with this. Can some one point me in the right direction for info about what pads to use and compounds?

My final coat will be Menzerna Power Lock Sealant as it was recommended to me in the past and I like it. Leaves the car super slick and is easy to put on and take off. Not sure if this can be put on/off with a buffer or not, will need to look into that (and what pads to use).

[Indy Bumble Bee]

You clay to get all the "crap" off of your paint before you wax the car. You will be amazed how much junk you get on the clay and will be thankful you clayed before you waxed.

I suggest you go to adamspolishes.com and watch their videos on their detailing process. Whether you buy from them or not, you will learn a lot about the process. I washed,clay barred, and then waxed my car two weeks ago and my paint feels like silk. It is so addicting

[chappy48]

If your paint has surface contaminates on it, you only end up doing more damage to your paint by skipping the claying step and going straight to polishing. Imagine a polisher spreading all of those contaminates around, adding additional scratches and swirls. This is why we clay. Get rid of anything on the surface of the paint that could cause damage.

[CamaroDreams07]

Originally Posted by chappy48

If your paint has surface contaminates on it, you only end up doing more damage to your paint by skipping the claying step and going straight to polishing. Imagine a polisher spreading all of those contaminates around, adding additional scratches and swirls. This is why we clay. Get rid of anything on the surface of the paint that could cause damage.

Not to mention ruin your pads.

Definitely agree with everything posted above. Detailing isn't something where cutting corners does you any good.

[chappy48]

Originally Posted by CamaroDreams07

Not to mention ruin your pads.

Definitely agree with everything posted above. Detailing isn't something where cutting corners does you any good.

[IPT]

Makes sense, thanks. I guess I was thinking of polishing just as removal. The thought that you don't want to gunk up the polishing pads, or just spread the contaminants around makes sense.

[Todd@Autopia]

DetailingClay (vs. hobby clay or Play-Doo) is indeed abrasive. In fact, Detailing Clay comes in various grades of abrasiveness. Similar to how sandpaper comes in different grits, or buffing liquids come in compounds, swirl removers, and final polishes. Aggressive clay is most commonly used in body shops or in situations when the paint is going to be polished. This is because aggressive clay has a high tendency to leave marring (lightly surface scratch the paint). When used on very soft paint, aggressive clay can be so aggressive that you can dull the tops of the orange peel texture, just like sanding.

Because something is abrasive does not mean it will do the same intended job. It is near impossible to remove orange peel texture from cured paint by machine polishing but it is (relatively) easy to do with wet sanding, even though both would be considered abrasive. Why? Because when you sand (to remove orange peel) you are using a fairly hard backing sponge that will force the paint to contour the shape of the backing block. The abrasives are focused (with much greater pressure) over any uneven areas (high spots) which levels these areas much faster, until the surface becomes level. When polishing you are applying the abrasives with a much softer backing, that will flow to some degree over the paint. The abrasives are worked evenly over the ebbs and flows and contours to the surface, removing material far more evenly.

What does this have to do with contamination? Remember that the clear coat on your paint is about a sheet of paper thick (very thin) yet it can be polished many times before thinning it out. Contamination (particularly the type that you can feel with your finger tip) can be quite thick (relative to the paint's thickness and the polishes ability to remove that material). So when you are polishing contaminated paint you are abrading the contamination, likely at a slightly greater rate then the surrounding clear coat. If the contamination is .5 mils thick (and made of mostly iron oxide) it could require multiple passes to fully remove the abrasion.

A clay bar (which is far less abrasive as a whole then compounding the paint), because it is firm, will focus almost all of its cutting action on the contamination itself (the rest of the bar hydroplanes across the paint surface). If the clay was super soft like a sponge, it simply would not work.

So (in general, there are always exceptions to the rule) the following abrasives are do the following jobs best.

Sand paper- designed to level paint flat when used with a sanding block.

Clay- designed to level random 'bumps' of contamination.

Machine polishing- tends to level material evenly (removes a much more equal amount of material from surfaces of slightly different heights).

As noted above, you CAN remove contamination from polishing (this was common practice before clay proved to be more efficient and less invasive.) To remove the contamination you are going to have to use a stiffer polishing surface that focuses the majority of its energy on the contamination itself.

This is usually done by using a wool pad at high RPM. The high RPM pulls the fibers taut and creates a much stiffer polishing surface. (Think of spinning a rock tied to a string above your head. If you swing it slowly, the string will have slack. If you really whip it around the string will become very very taut).


CLIFF NOTES: Clay works well at removing contamination (bumps that stick above the paint) because it focuses all of its work on the contamination (if floats across the relatively smooth paint surface and eats at the bumps).

Polishing works to remove material evenly from most surfaces because the polishing pads ability to contour to the body panel and bumps. Some contamination is as thick as the clear coat and quite attached. It could require a lot of polishing to reduce it.

[Indy Bumble Bee]

^ well said and you learn something new everyday!

[Todd@Autopia]

Originally Posted by Indy Bumble Bee

^ well said and you learn something new everyday!

Thanks

[IPT]

Thanks Todd - very informative.

So on a new car you would clay, then polish, then seal. I'm guessing a mid level abrasion polish/pad would be all that was required, or maybe even a fine one?

[Todd@Autopia]

Originally Posted by IPT

Thanks Todd - very informative.

So on a new car you would clay, then polish, then seal. I'm guessing a mid level abrasion polish/pad would be all that was required, or maybe even a fine one?

It really depends on the car (some are fairly trashed by dealerships washing them with brooms!) but in general, yes, a mild/medium grade polish is all that is needed to make a brand new car look brand new.

The rest of your process seems spot on!

[chalkupanother1]

I'm getting out of my part time detailing biz...getting rid of my extra clay sets. Clay Magic mild with lube. Kits still shrink wrapped. $20 shipped. PM if interested.

With my cars, I've really become addicted to claying. I do them about once every other month. I know, overkill, but I love the way the paint feels afterwards. Makes washing easier too.

[fastfreddie]

I'm wondering, does clay bar take off paint overspray? I have a car with a bit of overspray on it, not the Camaro though.

[CamaroDreams07]

Originally Posted by fastfreddie

I'm wondering, does clay bar take off paint overspray? I have a car with a bit of overspray on it, not the Camaro though.

Yes.

*In life, there are no nandroids*