Supercharger / Turbocharger Results (INFO) Thread

[mtcwby]

Radz, I just made 631 RWHP @ 7.5 lbs boost on 91 octane pump gas,
with a Vortech V-3si and ARH Long tubes, high flow cats, 3" exhaust
and Magnaflow muffler. Custom RMCR tune. No other mods.
Here's my build thread: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51856

[Riderover40]

I am going to keep it simple !! Ordering a TVS 2300 SC tomorrow !! The kit I am getting supplies a handheld tuner to get me rolling until I can get onto a Dyno...... with a CAI (from wifey for Xmas!!) I am expecting over 550 hp at the flywheel ...... ya think ??? I hear up to 600 HP ! I am thinking about gutting the OEM mufflers....any advise .

[CamBoy1120]

Aight man this is the page i was looking for...
Well i have a lot of Q's hopefully u can answer..

First, On a V6 what should i put in it.. turbocharger, supercharger, etc.. idk which is better (performance wise like in hp)

Second, if i install one do i still need a CAI..?

Third will it take out a Challanger RT with 370 some Hp... (My friend recently got one for christmas and is talking shiz lol)

Ur advice would be highly considered please.. i wanna learn..

Thanks.

[Riderover40]

Originally Posted by CamBoy1120

Aight man this is the page i was looking for...
Well i have a lot of Q's hopefully u can answer..

First, On a V6 what should i put in it.. turbocharger, supercharger, etc.. idk which is better (performance wise like in hp)

Second, if i install one do i still need a CAI..?

Third will it take out a Challanger RT with 370 some Hp... (My friend recently got one for christmas and is talking shiz lol)

Ur advice would be highly considered please.. i wanna learn..

Thanks.

So you want to bump the V6's HP rating..... I wouldn't blame you! SC or Turbo ? It is usually a matter of preference. Both mods have their pros and cons. I suggest you do some googling and read it all. My preference as you see is going to be a SC. I want reliability and performance without the worries or whats happening by generating excessive heat, turbos do that. Also, if you shut down a turbo to quicklu, before it cools down it will fry.

A supercharger, although it does rob power from the engine (belt driven from the drive train) it makes up for it. Cleaner....makes it invariably more reliable. A SC is also ready to go pretty much as sson as you step on the gas whereas the turbo has lag. Some people don't like the slight whine you get from a SC. I barely noticed it. A SC looks better too, I want to show it off and a Turbo, IMO, just looks like it doesn't belong!

Nuff said, don't cheap out. But one that has many "good" reviews and after purchase support. The TVS2300 has a 2 yr warranty and for 200 bucks I can get 3 yrs coverage for my engine! Speaks for itself eh!

[GenetX]

Ok so I completely just fried my mind reading all this info. I wanted a turbo system so bad but now I've narrowed it down to a SC but which one?

Twin-screw Superchargers or Centrifugal Superchargers any suggestions? Also which company is best between the both? So Fried I feel like a mustang that just got its but whooped by an SS

[VictoryRacingEngines]

Victory Racing Engines
(www.victoryracingengines.com)

"Street Sniper" - LS3 7.0 psi. 560/606 RWHP/RWTQ
-Turbonetics TC76 Turbo (divided housing, water cooled)
-JGS 50 wastegate (Recirculating)
-JGS 56mm blow off valve
-Vibrant Polished front mounted intercooler
-All 304 stainless steel piping and fittings
-All polished aluminum charge piping
-Vibrant 4 ply black couplers
-All Vibrant clamps (V-bands and T-bolts)
-3 inch downpipe that splits into two 2.5 inch and bolts to factory or aftermarket exhaust.
-Steel braided -4 oil feed line with fittings
-Steel braided -10 return line with fittings
-All vacuum lines and fittings
-Water cooled lines for turbo with all fittings
-Detailed easy to follow instructions

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by CamBoy1120

Aight man this is the page i was looking for...
Well i have a lot of Q's hopefully u can answer..
First, On a V6 what should i put in it.. Turbocharger, supercharger, etc.. idk which is better (performance wise like in hp) Second, if i install one do i still need a CAI..? Third will it take out a Challanger RT with 370 some Hp... (My friend recently got one for Christmas and is talking shiz lol) Ur advice would be highly considered please.. I wanna learn..

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Riderover40

So you want to bump the V6's HP rating..... I wouldn't blame you! SC or Turbo ? It is usually a matter of preference. Both mods have their pros and cons. I suggest you do some googling and read it all. My preference as you see is going to be a SC. I want reliability and performance without the worries or whats happening by generating excessive heat, turbos do that. Also, if you shut down a turbo to quickly, before it cools down it will fry.

A supercharger, although it does rob power from the engine (belt driven from the drive train) it makes up for it. Cleaner....makes it invariably more reliable. A SC is also ready to go pretty much as soon as you step on the gas whereas the turbo has lag. Some people don't like the slight whine you get from a SC. I barely noticed it. A SC looks better too, I want to show it off and a Turbo, IMO, just looks like it doesn't belong!

Nuff said, don't cheap out. But one that has many "good" reviews and after purchase support. The TVS2300 has a 2 yr warranty and for 200 bucks I can get 3 yrs coverage for my engine! Speaks for itself eh!

Originally Posted by GenetX

Ok so I completely just fried my mind reading all this info. I wanted a turbo system so bad but now I've narrowed it down to a SC but which one?

Twin-screw Superchargers or Centrifugal Superchargers any suggestions? Also which company is best between the both? So Fried I feel like a mustang that just got its but whooped by an SS

Well……you know what they say about opinions . Everyone has one. Here are mine as it relates to the above. Perhaps I should tell everyone what makes me uniquely qualified to address this issue. I am J.R. Granatelli, Owner of Granatelli Motor Sports. I have grown up in the forced induction world literally all my life. I have raced turbocharged Indy Cars, I have co-own my own Indy Car team but more to the point I worked at Paxton Superchargers from 1982 to 1990 and then purchased the company June 1990 and sold the company July of 1998. While all that had transpired, Jim Middlebrook, the owner of Vortech was my employee at Paxton and we gave him is first start in centrifugal supercharging as well. In 1982 we built a twin Paxton blown small block Chevy and installed it into my ’82 daily driver Camaro. We ran 204mph and set many records. However, even though I worked at Paxton I was always fascinated with Turbochargers - I removed the twin Paxton set up and installed twin 62mm turbos. We built 2 motors, 1 for the Camaro and 1 for a Caprice Classic 4 door (want to set both records) The simply by removing the Paxtons and installing the turbos we gained 180hp for a total of 950hp (seems like not so much today but we are talking about 1983 when this happened) The Camaro ran 261 and the Caprice ended up setting the 4 door record as well at 218 with 4 passengers too.

After selling Paxton in 1998 I went full speed ahead into the turbocharger business. We build and designed kits for many of the most popular GM, Ford and Dodge applications and many custom kits as well. In 2001 Ford had us build a Paxton Blown 4v Modular engine to go drag racing under their banner and again using 1 Novi 2000 supercharger (which I designed when I still owned Paxton) we made 1080hp. Again I removed the Paxton and installed 1 101mm turbo and made 1480hp.

Fast Forward to 2006 – I was approached by Jerry Magnuson to help work on the Eaton type Roots/Rotor/Screw type blowers. While this was a new path for us, I was more then eager to learn about this form of forced induction as well – now here comes my opinion….

CamBoy – I say NO WAY do you install a centrifugal on your V6. Centrifugals make boost linear to engine RPM. That means down low the centrifugal will not satisfy you – With the V6 you need to make up for the lack of Grunt (torque) right off the line. I think a turbo kit we be awesome for your requirement or a Magnuson type blower. I really don’t know anyone that offers a nice direct fit as off today. We are going to work on the V6 turbo kit as soon s the V8 is done. Whoever does build or sell you a forced inductions kit will most likely offer it with the appropriate air intake to go with it. I know Lingenfelter was working on V6 stuff but I am sure the prices will be stiff too. As for taking out a 370hp Dodge RT – I would say YES for sure that will be plausible

Riderover40 – To each his own – I hear what you’re saying but just a few things. Turbolag is a thing of the past. There is no such thing anymore as turbolag. When sized properly to the application it just isn’t there

Look at the dyno graph below -



I understand it is for a Mustang but it paints a perfect picture of how a perfectly sized turbo has no lag – even as low as 2600 the engine has picked up 60hp – that shows the boost is already there – in fact, 60hp at 2600 is a gain of 52% - that means this engine had at least 7psi by 2600 on its way to 10psi total. Turbos are as reliable and durable are any supercharger too. HEAT – I agree if you mount a turbo up by the valve cover there is extra unwanted heat and that needs to be factored in. We typically mount the turbos down low and heat is a non factor –

As for looks – I agree a Maggy in the center of the engine is hard to beat for looks – it looks clean – but so does a nice twin turbo system – as for centrifugal blowers like Paxton, Vortech and Procharger – they make but loads of top end power – probably the most but they look like they are out of place. – We agree on that

GenetX – If you have a V8 2010 and want all a great package – you cant go wrong with an off the shelf TVS2300 from Magnuson – with that said at 7.5 psi they make 450 to the tires in the real world – that works out to be 560 at the crank. If you plan to go over that - you need more than just the kit as delivered – like smaller blower pulley – voids warranty on blower, plus headers and perhaps a cam change. It is easy to make 550 at the tires with the TVS2300 but it takes more than just a standard kit with a 2 or 3 year warranty. The turbo on the other hand has proven to be a real 500 hp to the tires at just 5.5 psi and even 600 at 8psi. Single or twin – twin makes more power down low and package better – it is just a matter of moving air from point A to point T – (throttle body) - Wait until you see the twin turbo kit GMS and TTi are working on. It is worth the wait (4 more weeks)

Hope a few read this and take it for what it is worth – in the end you can’t make a bad choice - short of putting a centrifugal on a 6 cylinder – don’t do it.

SO we all know I am being totally honest – Yes I agree below 3k a Maggie is KING. After that the turbos win hands down. If what you want is a great car that is silky smooth down low and make BALLS out power on the Top – the centrifugal is great.

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by VictoryRacingEngines

Victory Racing Engines
(www.victoryracingengines.com)

"Street Sniper" - LS3 7.0 psi. 560/606 RWHP/RWTQ
-Turbonetics TC76 Turbo (divided housing, water cooled)

This is a great example of a beautifully installed single turbo with only 7 psi that makes 120hp more then the Magnuson at the same boost level

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by Granatelli

Hope a few read this and take it for what it is worth – in the end you can’t make a bad choice - short of putting a centrifugal on a 6 cylinder – don’t do it.

J.R., there was a lot of good information in your post, but as far as putting a centrifugal on a V6 being a bad idea...I've got over 1,000 350Z and G35 customers and quite a few 4.0L Mustang owners that would likely disagree with you.

[vinyljunkie]

Originally Posted by GenetX

Ok so I completely just fried my mind reading all this info. I wanted a turbo system so bad but now I've narrowed it down to a SC but which one?

Twin-screw Superchargers or Centrifugal Superchargers any suggestions? Also which company is best between the both? So Fried I feel like a mustang that just got its but whooped by an SS

Vortech ...nuff said

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by Brian@Vortech

J.R., there was a lot of good information in your post, but as far as putting a centrifugal on a V6 being a bad idea...I've got over 1,000 350Z and G35 customers and quite a few 4.0L Mustang owners that would likely disagree with you.

Brian -

Please don't get me wrong - I am torn between multiple lovers here. You and the world know how I feel about the Novi-2000. I think the centrifugal certainly has its place in the market - hell I spent what seems like my entire life pushing and talking about centrifugals. When I sold Paxton - I kept the Novi blowers on all my cars and boat with the exception on my 1997 Tahoe which was my first attempt since the 1982 Camaro at Turbo charging. With a very wimpy Turbonetics 60-1 turbo. I made 10hp more then the Novi at 6psi and 112 ft/lbs more. At 10psi the Novi was making 38hp more then the baby turbo (2.5" inlet on turbo vs 4.00" inlet on Novi-2000) but the turbo still managed 104ft/lbs more. So as a truck owner towing a boat - The turbo was king. At the drag strip - you can image what happened.

As any drag racer on the planet if they would trade 38hp for 100 ft/lbs. - Anyone with any experience knows 100ft/lbs in barge like SUV trumps 40 hp every time.

Look at the turbo system on the orange car a few posts back, it packages as nice as any centrifugal kit I have seen so far for the Camaro. But knowing what I know and seeing what the dyno results are



8psi - 484hp / 421ft/lbs - Centrifugal
7psi - 560hp / 606ft/lbs - Turbo

Hard to argue with +76hp & +185ft/lbs of the turbo system

Personally since I never drive a car past 5k miles I would run the turbo if these were my only 2 choices. However if this was my true daily driver and only car - it would be hard to argue that the Vortech system is not the safer of the 2. I would love to be proven wrong but I think hanging a huge ass turbo in that location is definitely a MEGA heater and will take it toll on the surrounding areas - so for that reason I agree the Centrifugal is a great choice.

However - mounting twin smaller 68mm turbos down low like these:

http://www.gmsvideos.com/featured_la...php?reset=true

is a totally different story - There is no heat issues because the air running under the car more then makes up for it - Even a centrifugal or screw blower on top of the motor adds heat - No where near what the turbo does but still MORE HEAT.

Now to address the specifics of the 1000's of happy 350Z and G35 customers and quite a few 4.0L Mustang owners. Have they had a chance to compare to a turbo in the same application?

Listen to the Vortech You tube video and the GMS video back to back - you can hear how quick the turbo motor "ramps” the torque number down low on the centrifugal can't come close to the turbo.

I am not saying the centrifugal is a bad choice - I am saying a turbo on a v6 (that already is giving up bottom end) is a better choice when it comes to torque and torque moves the car - AND the centrifugal does not add noticeable torque down low where the v6 needs it

[SonnyakaPig]

Originally Posted by Riderover40

So you want to bump the V6's HP rating..... I wouldn't blame you! SC or Turbo ? It is usually a matter of preference. Both mods have their pros and cons. I suggest you do some googling and read it all. My preference as you see is going to be a SC. I want reliability and performance without the worries or whats happening by generating excessive heat, turbos do that. Also, if you shut down a turbo to quicklu, before it cools down it will fry.

A supercharger, although it does rob power from the engine (belt driven from the drive train) it makes up for it. Cleaner....makes it invariably more reliable. A SC is also ready to go pretty much as sson as you step on the gas whereas the turbo has lag. Some people don't like the slight whine you get from a SC. I barely noticed it. A SC looks better too, I want to show it off and a Turbo, IMO, just looks like it doesn't belong!

Nuff said, don't cheap out. But one that has many "good" reviews and after purchase support. The TVS2300 has a 2 yr warranty and for 200 bucks I can get 3 yrs coverage for my engine! Speaks for itself eh!

I don't think you can still get the 3 year powertrain warranty with headers on your car.

[alab32]

Ok.... that was a lot of good information and kinda mind frying as someone else stated. What kind of SC would be a good option if I am not looking to do much more than bolt it on. I am not looking into cams or anything so I want to stay around 7psi to keep the engine running safely so... Where does that leave me? Seems to be a lot of good knowledge on flowing right now so... Thanks in advance for the help.

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by alab32

Ok.... that was a lot of good information and kinda mind frying as someone else stated. What kind of SC would be a good option if I am not looking to do much more than bolt it on. I am not looking into cams or anything so I want to stay around 7psi to keep the engine running safely so... Where does that leave me? Seems to be a lot of good knowledge on flowing right now so... Thanks in advance for the help.

Simple bolt on 7psi with a Magnuson is 430hp. Twin turbo - 520 at 7psi and a ton of low end torque

Centrifugal - 430 as well but les torque then both above

They all make the car way better then stock.

What is the budget?