[IanCC]

I don't usually bring up in conversation the fact that I nearly lost control of my car, but I figure this forum is as good a place as any to do so. I've had my white 2017 V6 M6 Camaro for a little over three months now. It's my first Camaro and first rear wheel drive car with any balls to speak of. And I have loved every minute of it. I can't get over how much this car makes me smile, both while driving it and every time I see it parked in my driveway.

When the dealer handed me the keys the day I drove it off the lot on a snowy wet afternoon this past April (late even for us to get snow up here), he said "Don't wrap it around a tree on your first day, kid". I laughed because I had the same thought, and the fact that I just turned 41 and still get called a kid now and then. This is my daily driver and I have already started thinking about how I'll outfit it for the coming ridiculousness that is the Canadian winter. To say I was exercising restraint that I'd acquired over the decades since I turned 16 was an understatement. I drove her carefully over the first few weeks, slowly getting used to the new found power that my old Toyota only dreamt of.

After getting a feel for the car I started giving it more gas when the situation felt right. I noticed pretty early on that accelerating out of a corner with a bit of force would loosen up the back end a bit. I loved it. Carefully. And as I got used to this marvel of Rear Wheel Drive + Power, I always felt in control. Until last night, that is.

It was nine at night and pretty dark out. I was on a country road I'd driven many times before. I was heading west and came to a red light that had a right-merge lane that meant if the traffic was clear, you needn't stop at the red and could merge into the northbound road to the right. With no one coming on either side, I gave just a feather of gas as I turned right. Super gentle.

I couldn't have been going more than fifteen kph (~9mph) when the back end snapped hard to the left and I was pointing about 45º towards the ditch.This is where I'd like to say my driver's instinct took over and I calmly steered it back to just the right amount and went on my way. The truth is I panicked a bit and, what I would have assumed was oversteer, actually got me going straight ahead again. I got lucky.

Without thinking too much (as seems to happen when one is full of adrenalin) and since I was pointing straight again, I thought it would be safe to give it just a touch of gas to be on may way and treat that whole business as a lesson learned. But it happened again! I spun the back out once more and had to correct the steering one more time.

What took a few seconds for me to realize is that in the dark, I didn't notice the rain that had all but disappeared by the time I arrived at this part of town, had left the road a touch wet. So I was dealing with a loss of traction. I get that. But nothing else about it makes sense and is why I'm writing it up here. I've driven in wet conditions many times, with likely more throttle than last night, in wetter conditions! The day I picked her up for the first time from the dealer was the most likely day for me to put it in the ditch. And yes, both my traction and stability control were on. And neither one flashed on the dash as I've seen them do when the back end snaps out a bit on dry roads.

The thing I've found about getting older is I don't mind admitting if I screw something up. As long as I can learn from the situation, nothing is a loss. So I'd love to hear other drivers' thoughts on this. Is this situation unheard of? Could I have done anything differently? The next thing that crossed my mind is if I am foolish for thinking I can drive this car all year, even with proper winter tires, if I'm going to run into that kind of loss of traction.

At any rate, thanks for read and please do chime in if you have any thoughts or suggestions.

Ian

[cellsafemode]

sounds like you ran over oil or something similarly slick that was on the road.

[hworth18]

Fresh rain brings oil and other chemicals to the surface of the road. This could have made the driving surface extremely slick.

[wjones14]

I'd suggest a track day with an instructor.

Sounds like you've been experimenting, pushing a bit more and more over time, and enjoying it as you gained confidence. And then you had a close call, or a couple of them and naturally it scared you, or had your attention at least.

So yeah, on a track you can explore the limits of both you and your car, safely. It's the only way really.

Glad you like the car and glad that nothing happened to it.

[Norm Peterson]

Could also have been a case of some other car dumped a little coolant. That stuff is nearly as slippery as oil and frequently harder to spot even in the daylight.


Norm

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by IanCC

I don't usually bring up in conversation the fact that I nearly lost control of my car, but I figure this forum is as good a place as any to do so. I've had my white 2017 V6 M6 Camaro for a little over three months now. It's my first Camaro and first rear wheel drive car with any balls to speak of. And I have loved every minute of it. I can't get over how much this car makes me smile, both while driving it and every time I see it parked in my driveway.

When the dealer handed me the keys the day I drove it off the lot on a snowy wet afternoon this past April (late even for us to get snow up here), he said "Don't wrap it around a tree on your first day, kid". I laughed because I had the same thought, and the fact that I just turned 41 and still get called a kid now and then. This is my daily driver and I have already started thinking about how I'll outfit it for the coming ridiculousness that is the Canadian winter. To say I was exercising restraint that I'd acquired over the decades since I turned 16 was an understatement. I drove her carefully over the first few weeks, slowly getting used to the new found power that my old Toyota only dreamt of.

After getting a feel for the car I started giving it more gas when the situation felt right. I noticed pretty early on that accelerating out of a corner with a bit of force would loosen up the back end a bit. I loved it. Carefully. And as I got used to this marvel of Rear Wheel Drive + Power, I always felt in control. Until last night, that is.

It was nine at night and pretty dark out. I was on a country road I'd driven many times before. I was heading west and came to a red light that had a right-merge lane that meant if the traffic was clear, you needn't stop at the red and could merge into the northbound road to the right. With no one coming on either side, I gave just a feather of gas as I turned right. Super gentle.

I couldn't have been going more than fifteen kph (~9mph) when the back end snapped hard to the left and I was pointing about 45º towards the ditch.This is where I'd like to say my driver's instinct took over and I calmly steered it back to just the right amount and went on my way. The truth is I panicked a bit and, what I would have assumed was oversteer, actually got me going straight ahead again. I got lucky.

Without thinking too much (as seems to happen when one is full of adrenalin) and since I was pointing straight again, I thought it would be safe to give it just a touch of gas to be on may way and treat that whole business as a lesson learned. But it happened again! I spun the back out once more and had to correct the steering one more time.

What took a few seconds for me to realize is that in the dark, I didn't notice the rain that had all but disappeared by the time I arrived at this part of town, had left the road a touch wet. So I was dealing with a loss of traction. I get that. But nothing else about it makes sense and is why I'm writing it up here. I've driven in wet conditions many times, with likely more throttle than last night, in wetter conditions! The day I picked her up for the first time from the dealer was the most likely day for me to put it in the ditch. And yes, both my traction and stability control were on. And neither one flashed on the dash as I've seen them do when the back end snaps out a bit on dry roads.

The thing I've found about getting older is I don't mind admitting if I screw something up. As long as I can learn from the situation, nothing is a loss. So I'd love to hear other drivers' thoughts on this. Is this situation unheard of? Could I have done anything differently? The next thing that crossed my mind is if I am foolish for thinking I can drive this car all year, even with proper winter tires, if I'm going to run into that kind of loss of traction.

At any rate, thanks for read and please do chime in if you have any thoughts or suggestions.

Ian

Your Traction control was there to save you. Your traction control is your friend won't let anything bad happen to you.

[Homer2]

Lets not start that winter driving talk just yet ok?
2 years with a V6 Camaro - and 4 snow tires. Never an issue once you learn a couple of important things.

last year- drove every day in the SS... never an issue.. 4 snows and you are good to go.

drive smart.. use the car, it was built to work in the winter. Nannies on and off when needed.

[IanCC]

Great idea Jones. I've been thinking about taking some track lessons and I think it's likely the only way to get the muscle memory down to react correctly in a slide or rapid breaking. Thanks for the encouragement!

[IanCC]

Originally Posted by Homer2

Lets not start that winter driving talk just yet ok?
2 years with a V6 Camaro - and 4 snow tires. Never an issue once you learn a couple of important things.

last year- drove every day in the SS... never an issue.. 4 snows and you are good to go.

drive smart.. use the car, it was built to work in the winter. Nannies on and off when needed.

Good to hear. Any sorry for the winter talk Homer. I got a sunburn today at the beach so we can't be that close

[soloknight6]

Originally Posted by ACCHRM

My second canyon run I did with my 1LE, almost slid into the barrier on a tight turn. I'm not a race car driver, but from what I've driven I think I'm good. I was up to Palomar Mt, CA with a friend with his ATS-V and I had my 18 SS 1LE, we were going at it crazy, I was in front and he was right behind. We are both very technical at the corners and never cross the yellow line, but at the same time still push our cars as much as we can. I was at front and we were going hard, closing up on a short downhill, following with a very tight right turn. Running down the hill at a high speed and still safe enough for the big 6 piston brakes to slow me down and have time to almost completely stop. I see this stream of water right before the turn, running through the road, panicked a little bit but jumped on the brakes firmly, yet just enough so I don't lock the tires and hydroplane over the water. The tires did not slide, yet slowed me down just enough, still mid corner and on the brakes, barely crossed the yellow lane, I was still able to gain complete control of the car, it barely skid sideways. At that point I realize the potential of the 1LE. It was a scary moment for a bit, but it made me a little happier with it. I Know what you guys are going to say, I was familiar with the road, but did not expect all of that water right before the turn. P.s. We are headed to a few race tracks next!

That mountain has claimed many cars and bikes. Great drive though! One of the best roads in the US. I highly recommend skip barber, only did a single day course with them, but I feel confident when it comes to "steering with the rear wheels."

[init4fun]

Had something very similar happen in my truck several years back while visiting a friend in rural Wisconsin. Turned onto a side road and my truck snapped suddenly to the left. I was going slow enough that I got it stopped sideways in the middle of the road without hitting anything but it seemed to slide for an extended amount of time considering I was only going about 15 mph..... Attempting to drive away the tires spun badly and and I noticed that I also have very little in the way of steering or brakes.

Pulling over to the side of the road I got out and could see what looked like gas on the road. I drove along the shoulder in the grass/dirt for a little ways to clean the tires off before getting back on the road but had the same issue again about a 1/4 mile later so it decided to crawl it home on the shoulder. About a mile up the road was a semi stopped on the side of the road. One of his tanks was leaking and dumping diesel all over the road. Not sure what happened after that but we did call it in when I got to my buddies house.

[tthobe]

Road surfaces are much, much slicker after just a bit of rain as oils are lifted to the surface. You'll get much better traction after a downpour which washes the residues away.
I'm also in the T.O. area, lovin my '17 camaro, and planning to continue using it as my daily driver over the winter with some blizzaks.
P.S. If you corner (with throttle) expecting the back end to come loose you'll be much better prepared to react/correct when it actually does. A little sideways action is part of the fun with RWD! Nannies should be watching over you but it's always best to be prepared. Cheers!

[Ian SS]

There can't be two of us.