Is the V6 Consisdered a muscle car?

[theone]

Originally Posted by bbfn11

When I was growing up a muscle car to me was a "mid size" or larger body style car "usually" with a V-8.

The 2010 Camaro if I am not mistaken is considered a compact size car so should that take away the muscle definition of the car and lean it toward the pony definition? In other words, does the body size define it as muscle or pony as well?

My .02

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_classification

i don't believe the camaro is considered a compact car it is a full size car

[motorhead]

To sum up this 169 post thread. To some it is ,to some it isn't, to some the camaro isn't in any form and some don't care. LOL

[masterofpuppets]

Just playing devils advocate. To everyone saying "it's a Camaro, so it's a muscle car by default" ask yourself this:


Is an 82 Iron Duke a muscle car? 90 hp ftw.

[KMPrenger]

EDIT: (re-wrote over my original post, b/c I think the two I commented on just got removed lol)

[priz23]

crap, now I have to return my car because its no longer a muscle car. I wish the dealer would have told me that up front! Slimy salesmen. After I infomred the car that it lost its musclecar status it started driving much slower, what a bad day all around.

Here's my thought....who the #$%^ cares what its termed. Its got camaro on the side, a bow tie on the grill, and a can take off like a bat out of hell (albeit a step slower than its older brother SS).

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by CatiaJockey

From Wikipedia:
Manufacturer Pony car Muscle car
AMC Javelin AMX AMX ('68-'70) were 2-seaters, therefore Sports Cars
Chevrolet Camaro Chevelle
Dodge Challenger Charger
Ford Mustang Torino
Mercury Cougar Montego
Oldsmobile none 442 And the Cutlass W31 was...?
Plymouth Barracuda Road Runner
Pontiac Firebird GTO

Someone needs to revise Wiki...

[Camaro Freak]

Enough already!! Call it what you will. I love mine.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by chuckstacamaro

To put it straight the Camaro, (even old school Camaro's) were not considered Muscle Cars by definition. They were Pony cars.

Most American car manufactuers in the 60's and 70's had both Muscle Cars and Pony Cars. Chevy had its Camaro, Pontiac Firebird/Trans Am, Ford Mustang, Mercury Cougar, Plymouth Barracuda, Dodge Challenger, and AMC Javelin/AMX. AMX, '68-'70, were Sports cars, '71-'74 were Pony Cars. AMC DID have the "Machine" which certainly is a valid Muscle Car...

However, a true Muscle car was an intermediate sized two door automobile with a full size car motor (Big Block). The 1964 GTO was the first true muscle car (well debatable with the 1957 Chyrsler 300, First Hemi for you Mopar guys, or more properly the '62-'63 Max Wedges in Dodge/Plymouth intermediates), as Pontiac took the 389 from the full sized Bonneville, with 3x2 Carbs, dual exhaust, 4 speed and installed it into the 64 Tempest/Lemans (intermediate car). Pontiac took everyone by surprise. Now it was catch up time for everyone else in late 64 and early 65.

Chevy in 1965 took the Corvette 396CID/375HP (rated 425HP in the Vette) motor and put into the Chevelle and the Chevelle 396SS was born. Chevy (also in 1965), installed the Corvette 427/425HP (NOT available till '66 MY) in a select few Chevelle SS's that were coded the Z11. Actually, Z11 was the LPO code for race-intended '63 Impalas-approx. 50 or so, with more built over-the-counter. Z16 was the '65 Malibu SS396 option with 396/375 rating...200-odd built. NO 427 Chevelles left GM assembly plants until '69, and then only as COPOs, which when protested by the "other" Divisions led to the '70 454/455 options throughout GM...

Oldsmobile in late (spring-'64) 1964/early 1965 took its 400 (Actually 394CID) from the Dynamic 88 full size car line and installed it into the F-85 Cutlass calling it the 442 (442 = 4bbl, 4spdl, dual exhaust).

Buick in 1965 took the 400 (actually 401, thus technically violating GM's "400-max." rule) CID from the Buick Riviera and installed it in its Skylark (intermediate) and called it the Skylark GS (Grand [actually GRAN] Sport). Eventually GM upped the ante on all its model car lines with engines getting bigger and bigger and more powerful each year from 1965 through 1970 (396, 400, 425, 427,454 and 455CID engines depending on car manufactuer mnake and model). GM restricted all Divisions to 400 c.i., until '70 MY...Hurst Olds '68-'69 excepted, as they were NOT GM-assembled

The Plymouth, Dodge boys also had their versions of Muscle Cars (Charger, Fury, Super Bee, GTX, Road Runner and Belvedere with 383, 440 or 426 Hemi Power). They really started it, in '62, with their Max Wedge program...the GTO was the first "volume" version, exceeding even Delorean/Wangers "predictions"...

So did Ford/Mercury (Fairlanes, Cyclones, Torinos with 427/428/429 to eventually 460 CID Big blocks).

And even the now defunct American Motors Corporation (AMC) had their Rebel Machine and Rambler from 1967 through 1970 with 390 and 401 CID Motors installed in their intermediate cars.

The Full sized cars in the 1960's through 1970 with factory modified big blocks were known as Super Cars. "Super Cars" was a designation really first used to describe European exotics/hybrids, including the original Cobra. Yenko/Nickey/Motion and others "borrowed" the term...... Full sized cars were the Impalas, Belaires, Caprices, Rivieras, Electra 225, Polaras, Fury III's, Catalinas, Grand Prix's, Bonnevilles, Mauraders, LTD's, Galaxies, Delta 88's, and Toronados.

There were also mid-sized cars that were known neither by Pony Car or Muscle Car but they were quick and fast. Some of these were the 340/383 Dodge Dart/Demons and 340/383 Plymouth Swingers/Dusters, Chevy II's/Nova SS with 327/350 or 396 power, the Ford Falcons/Mercury Comets 289/302 and the AMC S/C Rambler 390.

The 60's and early 70's was the era for totally awesome American cars. I'm just glad to have been there when those classics were new, and was able to buy them as used cars when I got out of High school.

Now if you want to talk about the birth of the Modern Day Muscle car well that era would have begun in the mid 1980's, but that is another story for another time.

Modern Day Muscle introduction is a "Last of"/"First of" situation...and both apply to the Buick Regal T-Type Turbo/GN/GNX of '86-'87...

Let the firestorm begin...

[SDCamaro10]

This thread is an abomination. Its ridiculous, repugnant, preposterous, appalling and crass. I dont appreciate everyones rue's.

I love my car, wouldnt trade it for anything and i see no reason to debate over something so ridiculous. Mods please delete this thread and end the pain and agony!

It's bringing nothing but hate and discontent and I feel like writing a VERY strongly worded letter to my congressman!

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by SDCamaro10

I feel like writing a VERY strongly worded letter to my congressman!

Don't forget to include a check...or perhaps start your own Lobby Group or PAC...

[marley.]

Honestly who gives a shhh about whether its called a "muscle" car. Its a Camaro and its hotter than anything else on the road regardless of engine size.

[chuckstacamaro]

Some people STILL just don't get it....... Read the history lesson below.....

The Camaro, (even old school Camaro's) were not considered Muscle Cars even with the 396 or 427 Big Block by definition they are were still considered Pony cars. Bad Ass at that but still a Pony Car.......

Most American car manufactuers in the 60's and 70's had both Muscle Cars and Pony Cars. The Pony cars were: Chevy had its Camaro, Pontiac Firebird/Trans Am, Ford Mustang, Mercury Cougar, Plymouth Barracuda, Dodge Challenger, and AMC Javelin/AMX.

The true Muscle Car is was an intermediate sized two door automobile with a full size car motor (Big Block). The 1964 GTO was the first true muscle car (well debatable with the 1957 Chyrsler 300, First Hemi for you Mopar guys), as Pontiac took the 389 from the full sized Bonneville, with 3x2 Carbs, dual exhaust, 4 speed and installed it into the 64 Tempest/Lemans (intermediate car). Pontiac took everyone by surprise. Now it was catch up time for everyone else in late 64 and early 65.

Chevy in 1965 took the Corvette 396CID/375HP motor and put into the Chevelle and the Chevelle 396SS was born. Chevy (also in 1965), installed the Corvette 427/425HP in a select few Chevelle SS's that were coded the Z11.

Oldsmobile in late 1964/early 1965 took its 400 (Actually 394CID) from the Dynamic 88 full size car line and installed it into the F-85 Cutlass calling it the 442 (442 = 4bbl, 4spdl, dual exhaust).

Buick in 1965 took the 400 CID from the Buick Riviera and installed it in its Skylark (intermediate) and called it the Skylark GS (Grand Sport). Eventually GM upped the ante on all its model car lines with engines getting bigger and bigger and more powerful each year from 1965 through 1970 (396, 400, 425, 427,454 and 455CID engines depending on car manufactuer mnake and model).

The Plymouth, Dodge boys also had their versions of Muscle Cars (Charger, Fury, Super Bee, GTX, Road Runner and Belvedere with 383, 440 or 426 Hemi Power).

So did Ford/Mercury (Fairlanes, Cyclones, Torinos with 427/428/429 to eventually 460 CID Big blocks).

And even the now defunct American Motors Corporation (AMC) had their Rebel Machine and Rambler from 1967 through 1970 with 390 and 401 CID Motors installed in their intermediate cars.

The Full sized cars in the 1960's through 1970 with factory modified big blocks were known as Super Cars. Full sized cars were the Impalas, Belaires, Caprices, Rivieras, Electra 225, Polaras, Fury III's, Catalinas, Grand Prix's, Bonnevilles, Mauraders, LTD's, Galaxies, Delta 88's, and Toronados.

There were also mid-sized cars that were known neither by Pony Car or Muscle Car but they were quick and fast. Some of these were the 340/383 Dodge Dart/Demons and 340/383 Plymouth Swingers/Dusters, Chevy II's/Nova SS with 327/350 or 396 power, the Ford Falcons/Mercury Comets 289/302 and the AMC S/C Rambler 390.

The 60's and early 70's was the era for totally awesome American cars. I'm just glad to have been there when those classics were new, and was able to buy them as used cars when I got out of High school.

Now if you want to talk about the birth of the Modern Day "Muscle Car" you might be able to consider the 1984 to 86 Buick Grand National and Regal T-Type as close to the definition of a Muscle Car.. But the beginning of the Modern Day Performance Car Era began in the mid 80's with the 5.0 Mustang's, Buick GN, 5.7 Camaro's (IROC-Z) and WS6 Trans Ams..Remember the Firehawk?

However the Camaro's, Firebird/Trans Am's and Mustang's will never be a true MUSCLE CAR.... so get over it people.....

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by masterofpuppets

Does vbulletin have an ignore feature.

yes it does

Originally Posted by masterofpuppets

In my opinion, calling any car these days a muscle car is an excuse, not a feature. Hear me out. I love muscle cars. a 454 Chevelle or an Olds 442 are dream cars for me. BUT, that being said, the idea in most peoples heads of a muscle car is an out of the box dragster. Big block engines, big power, but put it in to a corner and hold on for your life. Now, take the new Mustang and it's suspension that uses technology twice as old as me. This is looked upon as acceptable because, well, it's 'only a muscle car'. Modern Camaro's are performance cars. Not sports cars, performance cars, that compete in 2 different categories. Yes, there's heritage, but all these cars could be so much more. Look at what some Camaros are doing on the track..... and I'm not talking strips!

I may be way off, but this is just my opinion

thats pretty much my thinking. But to put it into my own words ...

The current V6 Camaro isn't a muscle car. Neither is the SS. Neither will the Z28. And the 4th gens weren't muscle cars either. And neither were the 3rd gens. Some of the 2nd gens were, and a few of the 1st gens were as well.

When I think of 'muscle car' I think of big block powered 2 door's that seat at least 4. And (this is really important, so pay attention) they couldn't handle at all. They could turn well enough to make another pass at the drag strip, and that was about it. Its been a really long time since any Camaro met that description. Pony cars on the other hand, are (in my mind) 4 seat coupes with a strong engine and are capable of taking on a road course. A lot more Camaro's fit this description. And the current V6's and V8s certainly do.

Muscle car? No. The 5th gen Camaro is something more. Its a pony car.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by chuckstacamaro

Some people STILL just don't get it... Read the history lesson below...

You mean the one full of inaccuracies? Corrected above? See post #176...

You've now posted your partially accurate version THREE TIMES...and commented, now, on things previously stated in this thread...Regal T-Types/GN/GNX specifically...

...all of it...