Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
JUICEDMOTORSPORTS
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-16-2008, 01:37 PM   #57
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 25,287
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by headpunter View Post
you cant go up in aspect ratio in that game though, it wont help you.
You can't just slap on a new set of wheels that match the Camaro's rolling diameter? Oh well. His numbers just need to be multiplied by 5th Gen/4th Gen rolling diameter.

When I get home I will plot it all out -aero drag (high and low) against powercurve (again, high and low) to get an aero top speed range. Then I will compare that against gearing (with wheel size) in 5th and 6th. I assume I will need to use wheel hp as opposed to crank hp for the aero top speed. If thats the case then I can only do it for the manual (take 4% off LS3 corvette numbers, best I can do). I could try substituting an LS2 in for the L99. Going to have to check the specs on them though.

It won't be perfect buts its the closest that I think we will get. Maybe tomorrow I will do it for the V6's.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 01:41 PM   #58
headpunter
Not That sad..considering
 
headpunter's Avatar
 
Drives: Man
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: the part of washington the capital forgot about.
Posts: 3,747
Send a message via AIM to headpunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
You can't just slap on a new set of wheels that match the Camaro's rolling diameter? Oh well. His numbers just need to be multiplied by 5th Gen/4th Gen rolling diameter.

When I get home I will plot it all out -aero drag (high and low) against powercurve (again, high and low) to get an aero top speed range. Then I will compare that against gearing (with wheel size) in 5th and 6th. I assume I will need to use wheel hp as opposed to crank hp for the aero top speed. If thats the case then I can only do it for the manual (take 4% off LS3 corvette numbers, best I can do). I could try substituting an LS2 in for the L99. Going to have to check the specs on them though.

It won't be perfect buts its the closest that I think we will get. Maybe tomorrow I will do it for the V6's.
forza limits you to Stock outer diameter so even if you have 21's on it still has the stock outer diameter.
__________________
headpunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 02:27 PM   #59
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 31,874
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Mother of gear Ratios

Hey guys, (and DGthe3; this may assist your calculations)
I ran the numbers to find the maximum gear ratio-supported top speeds in each gear, total reduction ratios for each gear, and cruising engine-speeds at 60mph, and 80mph.


fyi(1); this is all based on a 28" total diameter wheel...so somebody please correct me if that's wrong, because it affects everything.
fyi(2); the top speeds are dependant also on redline engine speeds. For the auto SS--6000 ; manual SS--6600 ; LS/LT--7000.



Maximum speeds in the auto(manual) LS/LT
1- 43(39)
2- 75(69)
3- 115(109)
4- 153(149)
5- 210(178)
6- 265(237)


Maximum speeds the auto (manual) SS
1- 37(52)
2- 64(81)
3- 99(111)
4- 132(159)
5- 180(189)
6- 227(280)


Cruising rpms @ 60mph & 80mph
LS/LT Automatic: 1600rpm & 2100rpm
LS/LT Manual:…….1800rpm & 2300rpm

SS Automatic:…….1600rpm & 2100rpm
SS Manual:………….1400rpm & 1900rpm


TOTAL Gear Reductions (_:1) auto(manual) LS/LT
1- 13.30(14.64)
2- 7.74(8.43)
3- 5.06(5.33)
4- 3.79(3.89)
5- 2.77(3.27)
6- 2.19(2.45)


TOTAL Gear-Reductions (_:1) auto(manual) SS
1- 13.17(10.38)
2- 7.71(6.76)
3- 5.00(4.93)
4- 3.76(3.45)
5- 2.77(2.89)
6- 2.19(1.96)
__________________
"Keep the faith." - Fbodfather
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 02:37 PM   #60
rolnslo
Rolling along...
 
rolnslo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS SGM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
fyi(1); this is all based on a 28" total diameter wheel...so somebody please correct me if that's wrong, because it affects everything.
Close. The actual calculated numbers range from 28.61" to 28.66", depending on wheel diameter and aspect ratios.

245/55R18 = 28.61"
245/50R19 = 28.64"
275/40R20 = 28.66"
rolnslo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 03:57 PM   #61
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 25,287
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Thanks Dragon, and rolnslo. That makes the calcs a lot quicker. Just a hunch but odds are the top speed will be in the ~5500 rpm range on the SS and at redline on the V6.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 05:17 PM   #62
PatrickfromMD
 
PatrickfromMD's Avatar
 
Drives: Buick Enclave/Corvette/2010 Camaro
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Hey guys, (and DGthe3; this may assist your calculations)
I ran the numbers to find the maximum gear ratio-supported top speeds in each gear, total reduction ratios for each gear, and cruising engine-speeds at 60mph, and 80mph.


fyi(1); this is all based on a 28" total diameter wheel...so somebody please correct me if that's wrong, because it affects everything.
fyi(2); the top speeds are dependant also on redline engine speeds. For the auto SS--6000 ; manual SS--6600 ; LS/LT--7000.



Maximum speeds in the auto(manual) LS/LT
1- 43(39)
2- 75(69)
3- 115(109)
4- 153(149)
5- 210(178)
6- 265(237)


Maximum speeds the auto (manual) SS
1- 37(52)
2- 64(81)
3- 99(111)
4- 132(159)
5- 180(189)
6- 227(280)


Cruising rpms @ 60mph & 80mph
LS/LT Automatic: 1600rpm & 2100rpm
LS/LT Manual:…….1800rpm & 2300rpm

SS Automatic:…….1600rpm & 2100rpm
SS Manual:………….1400rpm & 1900rpm


TOTAL Gear Reductions (_:1) auto(manual) LS/LT
1- 13.30(14.64)
2- 7.74(8.43)
3- 5.06(5.33)
4- 3.79(3.89)
5- 2.77(3.27)
6- 2.19(2.45)


TOTAL Gear-Reductions (_:1) auto(manual) SS
1- 13.17(10.38)
2- 7.71(6.76)
3- 5.00(4.93)
4- 3.76(3.45)
5- 2.77(2.89)
6- 2.19(1.96)
Exactly what I was looking for, great work! Could you repost the numbers with the revised tire diameter and the suggestion of 5500 RPM sounds more reasonable for the L99, and perhaps 6000 tops for the LS3 for where peak HP will occur. I'm gussing 170 mph for the Auto and 175mph for the stick drag limited. Add 10mph if there is the HP to push them closer to the outerband to of the max HP. All in all, I like what they have done with the gears.
P.S. The SS Auto should be a monster 0-60
__________________

***56K miles and still going strong***
2SS/RS IOM ext w/cyber grey stripes, tinted windows, IO int Auto
ProTorque prototype Converter, Chuck Mosello of Westchester Corvettes Custom Tune
T&T installed SLP Longtubes, Powerflow X Pipe, and Powerflow axle back
JL 10W3 in custom side sub box, new door tweeters, Alpine 5ch 600 watt
T&T configured ACS front Fascia w/ heritage grill, splitter, dual color halos, , led markers, taillight bezels , all accented in CGM
Gary Custom Z vented fenders. Vararam ver 2
PatrickfromMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 09:46 PM   #63
Matrix

 
Matrix's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 Camaro 2SS/RS & Magnum R/T
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowed_Stranger View Post
2 second 0-60 and 750mph top speed in jet fighter/camaro hybrid mode.
LMAO!!! I cant wait to get mine. I hope it really will be 4.5s or there abouts! I LOVE THIS CAR!!! As soon as I saw it I fell in LOVE with it!! Its now ordered. Now I just gotta wait it out!!
__________________
SIM Camaro 2010 V8-2SS/RS-A6!!+
Matrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 10:30 PM   #64
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 25,287
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Well, after all that all I can say is that the speed is right around 180-185 mph. It doesn't matter if its aero or gear limited. Not sure how to put this, but the error on the aero drag causes it go from aero limited to gear limited. A bit less drag and its gear limited (in 5th), a bit more and its aero limited at ~6000 rpm.

I can't find a dyno sheet for the 3.5DI. I imagine it probably drops off a bit before reaching its peak.

*edit I just found this, anyone want to fill in the blanks?
speed-calculator
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2008, 08:22 AM   #65
theholycow


 
theholycow's Avatar
 
Drives: '02 GMC Sierra, '80 Lesabre
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: RI
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
I can't find a dyno sheet for the 3.5DI. I imagine it probably drops off a bit before reaching its peak.
Your difficulty (unless I misunderstand what you're trying to do, which is entirely possible) is probably because you're searching for the wrong engine. Here's the DI 3.6's chart:
__________________
Removing weight has surprisingly little effect on fuel economy
Engine break-in procedure | Gear ratios
2002 GMC Sierra 4x4 5.3 (190,000 miles and going strong)
1980 Buick Lesabre family heirloom with 36,000 miles
2008 Volkswagen Rabbit 2 door I5-2.5 5spd DD lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
she really underestimates the damage i would do to her reproductive organs
http://allOffTopic.com is the place for all the naughty stuff you can't get away with on this forum...
theholycow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2008, 11:37 AM   #66
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 25,287
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
that was a typo, I knew it was a 3.6 not a 3.5. And while that chart is handy, I was looking more for a chassis dyno.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2008, 10:10 PM   #67
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 31,874
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
that was a typo, I knew it was a 3.6 not a 3.5. And while that chart is handy, I was looking more for a chassis dyno.
This is the best I've seen so far, and it's straight from GM...(though there may be one on the Cadillac forums in that intake/exhaust thread...)

Name:  LLT Dyno Chart.JPG
Views: 3690
Size:  133.0 KB

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD View Post
Could you repost the numbers with the revised tire diameter
I re-did the LT manual top speed in 6th (which would be most apt for error in this case), and it's gear-limited speed is 243 under the new formula as opposed to 237. I can re-crunch all the numbers if you really want them...but it's not a huge difference, and it took me half an hour to do all those the first time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD View Post
and the suggestion of 5500 RPM sounds more reasonable for the L99, and perhaps 6000 tops for the LS3 for where peak HP will occur.
No doubt! But for my purposes, I wasn't taking into account peak anything or aerodynamics. All my numbers tell you is how fast the tires can spin in a specific gear.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - Fbodfather
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 01:05 AM   #68
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 25,287
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
I think I have something that works. I only have the V6 auto with 19'' wheels done now, but it seems like its max speed is 160-165, sitting around 5200 rpm in 5th gear. I assumed 13% drive line losses off the chart. I will do the rest of them tomorrow and I will post up files with everything - acceleration in each gear, drag vs speed, speed vs rpm for each gear, and more.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Camaro Product Manager - interview Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 11 04-04-2012 06:10 PM
Pedders is Ready for Camaro!!! Info@PeddersUSA.com Wheels and Tires Talk Sponsored by The Tire Rack 10 04-15-2009 11:26 PM
Q&A with fbodfather (Scott Settlemire) regarding upcoming Camaro JustinZS 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 22 05-20-2008 07:48 PM
10 coolest cars on film Camaro in top ten KILLER74Z28 Camaro Photos | Spyshots | Video | Media Gallery 26 05-15-2008 10:52 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.