Kenne Bell intake tube

[MJ]

Hey Ted - While you have the car, maybe you can come up with a way to improve the IATs.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by MJ

Hey Ted - While you have the car, maybe you can come up with a way to improve the IATs.

You Reading my mind again?

[MJ]

Guess I better fill up the tank before I drop it off, haha...

[M6HuggerSS]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

All I can tell you is, I will have a KB car here all next week to Play with.

thats great news TED,
this should be interesting...

[JANNETTYRACING]

Continue this discussion here.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160038

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by MJ

Guess I better fill up the tank before I drop it off, haha...

I'm putting my Bogarts on your car and taking it to the track tomorrow. You can pick it up on Monday!!

[Matt@KB]

If you guys need the extended MAF harness we are having some made we should have them within a week. PM me your name and address I will get them out to you no charge.

Originally Posted by Rcfiddy1

agree, same situation here. They show the maf plug zip tied to coil bracet but then it wont reach the maf bung.

[MJ]

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

I'm putting my Bogarts on your car and taking it to the track tomorrow. You can pick it up on Monday!!

The rumor around Waterbury is that guy in the roll-caged orange SS automatic (that would be YOU) can't drive a stick. But once Ted is done with car, maybe even YOU would be able to drive it without stalling, haaaaaa.

We'll continue the discussion here...
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160038

[Matt@KB]

CUSTOM TUNING

It’s time for some clarification on Kenne Bell policies and position on custom tuning.

First, we do not recommend our standard kits be re-tuned- unless installing headers, larger injectors, cams and/or cat removal. We think we know our kits best. We’ve tuned tens of thousands of GM, Ford, Chrysler and Mazda vehicles over a 20-year period. See http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Commo...er_ReTuned.pdf
98% of our customers surveyed use the KB calibration included with the kit and choose not to tweak our tune.

Very few (three on this site) claim to have issues. If you do, call or PM us and we’ll do our best to fix it. That doesn’t mean we never have problems. We do, but they are always handled in a professional manner. Kenne Bell has offered to upgrade the 4.5" tube which incorporates a huge new Honeycomb air stream straightener for those who have an issue.

Again, PM or call Matt and we’ll take care of your problem. It’s not the problems that matter. Everyone has them, it’s what you do about them that counts.

4.5" 4" INLET PIPES

Any restriction (4" vs 4.5") on ANY positive displacement supercharger kit will REDUCE HP. KB kits are designed for max HP. 4" is not sufficient by our standards. I do not agree 4" is the “correct size.” We use a 4.5" and tune for it successfully on all our kits, i.e., Mustang 2v, 3v, the new 5.0, Cobra, Hemi 5.7, 6.1, 6.4 and Camaro with our 2.8, 3.6 and 4.2.

Yes, of course, larger pipes, throttle bodies and meters require special tuning. So do superchargers. That’s what we do as a manufacturer of supercharger kits. Jannetty Racing has also stated they CAN tune with the 4.5" as can others. It’s not magic. S.T. Motorsports is another big tuner who has no problem with the 4.5". Our survey did not find a single customer who would like to pay extra money for a cool air kit upgrade and a “new tune.” So Kenne Bell includes the Mammoth Cold Air Kit and tune at NO EXTRA cost. Just bolt it on and go. No custom tuning required.

We too deal only in FACTS and the 4" tube will NOT make the same HP as a 4.5". THAT is FACT from our Dyno and flow bench. Why would we us a 4.5" if a 4" was large enough? I drive my 2010 Camaro (the one on our website) daily with zero issues and the 4.5" pipe.

Anyone in the vicinity of our shop or visiting is welcome to come by and test drive this 100% stock Camaro with a standard KB 9 PSI kit and tune. It drives flawlessly.

However, if you choose to redesign our 4.5" to a 4" or stock 3 ½", it’s your choice. Warranty is not void, but we, don’t warranty or support the custom tune as it’s not Kenne Bell.. Also, remember the tube size is not the only technical consideration in air flow. For starters, a 4.5" pipe has 60% less pressure drop than a 4”. Then there’s the meter size and flow, the air filter, TB adapters etc. Also, higher inlet temps expand the air, thereby reducing air flow. These are all considerations along with screens or honeycombs, MAF sensor position and filter size, location and shape.

Example: We have over 25 MAF meter sensor locations on one of our test 4.5" pipes. This technology is not new or unique to us in any way.

VELOCITY & TURBULENCE

High velocity is NOT good. Everyone knows that. It means higher air flow and increased pressure/boost/HP losses. So higher velocities should be minimized in any inlet design. Bigger is what makes more HP, not velocity.

Turbulence issues are best solved with a screen as seen on all OEM systems or better yet a Honeycomb stream straightener insert.

At KB, we use Pitot tubes on a 1200HP flow bench to measure air flow velocity from 2-1800 CFM and boost drop from 0-10 PSI. We now use a huge hi-flow 4.5" Honeycomb air stream straightener of our own design. It has “0" HP loss at 560RWHP. Screens are okay for stock engines but eat 10-40HP on SC applications. All our kits now incorporate this Honeycomb.

If you have an issue and a kit without the Honeycomb, we will send you one no charge. Just give us a call with your supercharger serial number. It doesn’t matter if the kit is in warranty or not. You will be taken care of. We are in the Camaro supercharger business for the long haul and want all our customers to be satisfied with the kits.

Call, PM, email or Fax Matt at Kenne Bell.

RESOLUTION

This is easily adjusted without the expense of a new restrictive 4" pipe and custom tune. We are well aware of the difference in resolution. The 4.5" and Kenne Bell tune work great on my Camaro. Don’t bet your house on a 4" and custom tune working better.

Again, give us a call and we’ll send you the Honeycomb 4.5" pipe and the tune.

CAK/TUNE UPGRADES

We have sold thousands of 9PSI kits. They all use external cool air from a 1200HP rated Mammoth inlet system and produce great power without upgrading the inlet system or testing with the hood up.

Not one of the 250 Camaro owners surveyed thought coughing up $350-500 for a custom tune and another $300-$500 for a CAK upgrade was acceptable. All respondents preferred to avoid this added expense of replacing a stock filter box. So Kenne Bell offers our higher HP 4.5" Mammoth “real” cool air kit at NO EXTRA COST including the tune for all Camaro, Hemi and 5.0 Mustang kits. The same “outside the hot engine bay” concept we’ve offered since 1990.

And not one new customer has reported that there is a better Cold Air Kit than the KB. We conclude that an expensive Cold Air Kit upgrade and tune only benefits the tuner and not KB customers, at least on KB kits. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

MATT KENNE BELL TECH

Yes, Jim knows Matt is on the site. We meet every day. First question is “Any customer issues?” I think he does a great job in customer relations.

I personally, will have to assure responsibility for not getting back with the re-test data in a timely manner and hanging Matt out to dry. Sorry, Matt. Our dyno has been tied up on two CARB (50 state legal) projects for over a month now. We re-tested to be absolutely sure something had not changed.

TEMPS

I’ll just say this for now. Our data DOES NOT agree with Ted’s test that indicates the KB kit charge temp rise is 56* while the Whipple is only 9*. NO WAY. We have tested both kits on the same car, same tune, same dyno. During the R&D phase, there is even interchanging of parts between our kits and the competitions to determine the merit of each individual component. We too have FACTS. Our tests clearly show 18-20*, not the 56* claimed. And there’s a big question on the 9*for the Whipple.

KENNE BELL CUSTOMER SERVICE

There are hundreds of satisfied Camaro customers that never had their cars re-tuned or had to purchase a more restrictive and expensive 4" pipe and tune.

Everyone has an agenda and an opinion. We are data only oriented. We don’t do custom tuning for customers. That’s a job for the tuners. But we sure the hell know what makes our kits work and we possess the data to back our claims. Again, PM or call us if you have any issue with the kit and we’ll take care of it.

Our goal, as always, is to offer factory direct-no middle man tech support. That is Matt’s, Brian’s, Ken’s and my job. I hope this answers some of your questions about Kenne Bell. More to come.

Jim Bell

P.S. S.T. Motorsports has also run some comparison tests that should prove interesting. They are well experienced in GM, Ford and Mopar tuning as well as supercharging. 9's @ 143 with only a 3.6 kit. Legal weight car. No headers, NOS, cams or cat removal. And it is daily street driven-all 4.5" pipe.

Typically, Adam installs our kit and tune as shipped but re-tunes for headers, larger injectors and throttle bodies.

[JANNETTYRACING]

=Matt@KB;3506240]

CUSTOM TUNING


4.5" 4" INLET PIPES

Any restriction (4" vs 4.5") on ANY positive displacement supercharger kit will REDUCE HP. KB kits are designed for max HP. 4" is not sufficient by our standards. I do not agree 4" is the “correct size.” We use a 4.5" and tune for it successfully on all our kits, i.e., Mustang 2v, 3v, the new 5.0, Cobra, Hemi 5.7, 6.1, 6.4 and Camaro with our 2.8, 3.6 and 4.2.

Yes, of course, larger pipes, throttle bodies and meters require special tuning. So do superchargers. That’s what we do as a manufacturer of supercharger kits. Jannetty Racing has also stated they CAN tune with the 4.5" as can others. It’s not magic. S.T. Motorsports is another big tuner who has no problem with the 4.5". Our survey did not find a single customer who would like to pay extra money for a cool air kit upgrade and a “new tune.” So Kenne Bell includes the Mammoth Cold Air Kit and tune at NO EXTRA cost. Just bolt it on and go. No custom tuning required.

We too deal only in FACTS and the 4" tube will NOT make the same HP as a 4.5". THAT is FACT from our Dyno and flow bench. Why would we us a 4.5" if a 4" was large enough? I drive my 2010 Camaro (the one on our website) daily with zero issues and the 4.5" pipe.

Agreed but at What Power Level?

We are talking about a 9 PSI Kit here correct?

This one Below is at 775 Crank HP or 675 RWHP back to back testing has shown At this power level NOT to be the Case.

Anyone in the vicinity of our shop or visiting is welcome to come by and test drive this 100% stock Camaro with a standard KB 9 PSI kit and tune. It drives flawlessly.

6 Speed or Auto?

However, if you choose to redesign our 4.5" to a 4" or stock 3 ½", it’s your choice. Warranty is not void, but we, don’t warranty or support the custom tune as it’s not Kenne Bell.. Also, remember the tube size is not the only technical consideration in air flow. For starters, a 4.5" pipe has 60% less pressure drop than a 4”. Then there’s the meter size and flow, the air filter, TB adapters etc. Also, higher inlet temps expand the air, thereby reducing air flow. These are all considerations along with screens or honeycombs, MAF sensor position and filter size, location and shape.

Example: We have over 25 MAF meter sensor locations on one of our test 4.5" pipes. This technology is not new or unique to us in any way.

Would you Not Agree that installing a Honey Comb reduces cross section of the pipe?

We know the Answer is Yes, so why not just build a 4 inch pipe that does not require a Honey Comb to straighten The Air ?

The Larger the Pipe the Bigger the Turbulence Problem.

Why so many locations, because it is so hard to find a clean signal at the low flow rates for this size Pipe, Folks have to drive these cars not just RACE them.

VELOCITY & TURBULENCE

High velocity is NOT good. Everyone knows that. It means higher air flow and increased pressure/boost/HP losses. So higher velocities should be minimized in any inlet design. Bigger is what makes more HP, not velocity.

Turbulence issues are best solved with a screen as seen on all OEM systems or better yet a Honeycomb stream straightener insert.

Again Screen Reduces Cross section, increases Velocity, to straighten the air.

So Is this a contradiction?

At KB, we use Pitot tubes on a 1200HP flow bench to measure air flow velocity from 2-1800 CFM and boost drop from 0-10 PSI. We now use a huge hi-flow 4.5" Honeycomb air stream straightener of our own design. It has “0" HP loss at 560RWHP. Screens are okay for stock engines but eat 10-40HP on SC applications. All our kits now incorporate this Honeycomb.

If you have an issue and a kit without the Honeycomb, we will send you one no charge. Just give us a call with your supercharger serial number. It doesn’t matter if the kit is in warranty or not. You will be taken care of. We are in the Camaro supercharger business for the long haul and want all our customers to be satisfied with the kits.

Call, PM, email or Fax Matt at Kenne Bell.

So if there is absolutely no problem with a 4.5 in tube on this application, Why go through the trouble and expense to design and then now add this to your existing Tube, as you stated there is no problem with the current design?

RESOLUTION

This is easily adjusted without the expense of a new restrictive 4" pipe and custom tune. We are well aware of the difference in resolution. The 4.5" and Kenne Bell tune work great on my Camaro. Don’t bet your house on a 4" and custom tune working better.

Again, give us a call and we’ll send you the Honeycomb 4.5" pipe and the tune.

When does a 4 inch pipe become Restrictive?

We pulled 971 RWHP thorough a 4 inch pipe then removed it and no Performance advantage.

See below Dyno graph,

With the 4 in pipe, Both LS3 and L99 Cars drive Much Better and the Trans computer is Much Happier on the Auto Car.

CENTER]CAK/TUNE UPGRADES
[/CENTER]
We have sold thousands of 9PSI kits. They all use external cool air from a 1200HP rated Mammoth inlet system and produce great power without upgrading the inlet system or testing with the hood up.

Not one of the 250 Camaro owners surveyed thought coughing up $350-500 for a custom tune and another $300-$500 for a CAK upgrade was acceptable. All respondents preferred to avoid this added expense of replacing a stock filter box. So Kenne Bell offers our higher HP 4.5" Mammoth “real” cool air kit at NO EXTRA COST including the tune for all Camaro, Hemi and 5.0 Mustang kits. The same “outside the hot engine bay” concept we’ve offered since 1990.

And not one new customer has reported that there is a better Cold Air Kit than the KB. We conclude that an expensive Cold Air Kit upgrade and tune only benefits the tuner and not KB customers, at least on KB kits. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

It is Nice that you offer a Cold Air Kit included, Kudos

MATT KENNE BELL TECH

Yes, Jim knows Matt is on the site. We meet every day. First question is “Any customer issues?” I think he does a great job in customer relations.

I personally, will have to assure responsibility for not getting back with the re-test data in a timely manner and hanging Matt out to dry. Sorry, Matt. Our dyno has been tied up on two CARB (50 state legal) projects for over a month now. We re-tested to be absolutely sure something had not changed.

Congrats, did you get it?

TEMPS

I’ll just say this for now. Our data DOES NOT agree with Ted’s test that indicates the KB kit charge temp rise is 56* while the Whipple is only 9*. NO WAY. We have tested both kits on the same car, same tune, same dyno. During the R&D phase, there is even interchanging of parts between our kits and the competitions to determine the merit of each individual component. We too have FACTS. Our tests clearly show 18-20*, not the 56* claimed. And there’s a big question on the 9*for the Whipple.

KENNE BELL CUSTOMER SERVICE

There are hundreds of satisfied Camaro customers that never had their cars re-tuned or had to purchase a more restrictive and expensive 4" pipe and tune.

Whether you agree with me or not is Irrelevant, LOGS DON'T LIE.

I have some new ones from yesterday if you want to see those as well.

Everyone has an agenda and an opinion. We are data only oriented. We don’t do custom tuning for customers. That’s a job for the tuners. But we sure the hell know what makes our kits work and we possess the data to back our claims. Again, PM or call us if you have any issue with the kit and we’ll take care of it.

Our goal, as always, is to offer factory direct-no middle man tech support. That is Matt’s, Brian’s, Ken’s and my job. I hope this answers some of your questions about Kenne Bell. More to come.

Jim Bell

My only Agenda was to Help you. If you don't want the Help that is fine, We will go our separate ways.

I will continue to work with Manufacturers that are interested in our Factual Findings.

Obviously you don't know who I am or what I am capable of.
I have a 25 Year Professional history in business Making aftermarket parts fit better work better and go faster, it is what I do.

I wish you Well.

Ted.

[mcdoogle6969]

I am having the same issues, I have the auto trans and it's not going to run the way it should. Matt, my car is at the shop right now and my guy cannot tune it with that 4.5in intake tube.

My tuner is seeing the same issues that everybody else is. He cannot tune it to make it run perfectly. Do you guys have a tune so the car does not run like dog shit? I am very unhappy with this product at the moment. (Don't blame the tuner either, my tuner is very experienced and does amazing work. It's apparent that the tube can/is causing problems for the automatic cars.)

Can you please provide the data of your claims that the 4.5in intake works on the automatics.

Ted, what would you do at this point? I am looking for a fix asap, it's driving me nuts. Where could I get a 4in tube?

Thank you.

[mcdoogle6969]

Originally Posted by Matt@KB

We too deal only in FACTS and the 4" tube will NOT make the same HP as a 4.5". THAT is FACT from our Dyno and flow bench. Why would we us a 4.5" if a 4" was large enough? I drive my 2010 Camaro (the one on our website) daily with zero issues and the 4.5" pipe.

Anyone in the vicinity of our shop or visiting is welcome to come by and test drive this 100% stock Camaro with a standard KB 9 PSI kit and tune. It drives flawlessly.

Whats the last Eight digits of the vin? Also, is it a manual or automatic?

[Matt@KB]

PM me your name (used on the order), phone number, name of the shop tuning your vehicle and I will get you guys some help to get the car right.

Originally Posted by mcdoogle6969

I am having the same issues, I have the auto trans and it's not going to run the way it should. Matt, my car is at the shop right now and my guy cannot tune it with that 4.5in intake tube.

My tuner is seeing the same issues that everybody else is. He cannot tune it to make it run perfectly. Do you guys have a tune so the car does not run like dog shit? I am very unhappy with this product at the moment. (Don't blame the tuner either, my tuner is very experienced and does amazing work. It's apparent that the tube can/is causing problems for the automatic cars.)

Can you please provide the data of your claims that the 4.5in intake works on the automatics.

Ted, what would you do at this point? I am looking for a fix asap, it's driving me nuts. Where could I get a 4in tube?

Thank you.

[mcdoogle6969]

PM sent.