[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by Thor142

That's a lot of butt hurt from a comment some guy you don't even know made on a forum.

I thought you were gonna stay out of this months sales thread

I can only imagine that some Ford family member beat him up in grammer school and stole his lunch money. I mean he seems to take this friendly rivalry a bit to personally.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

The only way a Gen 6 will be like a Gen 1 is if somehow, in the mid 2020's, cars utterly lose their excitement and joy like they did in the mid 70's and early 80's.

If the continued, ever increasing performance, power, economy, like we're seeing now had happened then, the 67-69's wouldn't be even a 1/4 as valuable as they are now.

Not to entirely side track the thread, but what really makes the older cars valuable is the rare option package cars. Back then when you could order a car a la carte it could be a lot more rare.

Ex my dad ordered a 1969 Olds 442 W-30 in a color that was only offered on the Toranado.

[Cldgin2]

I think if anything it's the constant whining about the price point, which as I've said isn't all that much higher.. Has scared away some from even looking. Our community is creating a negative stigma. I personally don't think the price difference is all that much for a car that bumped up into an entirely new quality and performance segment.

At first I wasn't that impressed either. But then I realized I was just trying to justify in my head why my 5th gen was just as good. I was so wrong

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I can only imagine that some Ford family member beat him up in grammer school and stole his lunch money. I mean he seems to take this friendly rivalry a bit to personally.

Nope, never happened. Just to let you know, Mustang6g doesn't welcome positive comments on the Camaro. Does it mean their uncle and dad are the same person?

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

Nope, never happened. Just to let you know, Mustang6g doesn't welcome positive comments on the Camaro. Does it mean their uncle and dad are the same person?

On the whole they are fine with the Camaro. ZaneWayne is still a member over there and wasn't booted out. You have your die-hards in both camps, but generally they don't just ban people who are favorable towards the Camaro.

Camaro6 doesn't ban Mustang owners either, generally, unless they cause problems. Back in the old Camaro5 days tho they would ban anyone who wasn't lock-stepping Pro-Camaro, much like SVT would ban people.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Cldgin2

I think if anything it's the constant whining about the price point, which as I've said isn't all that much higher.. Has scared away some from even looking. Our community is creating a negative stigma. I personally don't think the price difference is all that much for a car that bumped up into an entirely new quality and performance segment.

At first I wasn't that impressed either. But then I realized I was just trying to justify in my head why my 5th gen was just as good. I was so wrong

1. The car is not in a "new segment" it's a Camaro and it's in the same segment it always was.
2. The segment is competing for the same sales dollars from the consumer. Performance metrics are only one part of the equation.
3. All the pony cars in the segment have "moved up" as you say in one area or another. It's still the same segment.
4. If the new GT500 smokes the ZL1 for roughly the same dollars are you going to say it's "moved up into a new segment?"

GM is doing something wrong here. It's not hard to see. Has nothing to do with whether we like the Gen 5 or not.

[crysalis_01]

Anyone alluding to the "the End is nigh" stance is jumping the proverbial gun. But anyone with blinders on to the sales "problem" at hand is also, if not just as much, in the wrong.

GM needs to at least try a new approach, maybe it's better marketing, better incentive packages, a more affordable entry point (LS), who knows. The thing is they don't seem to be trying anything. Thigh some will jump in and say"that means everything's going to plan.". Sure, that could be the case. Or, they're just putting on a facade to appear that way.

[Kobra_Klutch]

Or maybe this: Chevy should just stop making entry level variants of the Camaro and focus more towards the performance oriented buyer if the car is being marketed as a true sports car. Skip the 2.0 or the V6 just make bad ass V8s; take it or leave it mentality. And if Chevy wants to make a sporty version V6 or 4 banger coupe call it something else and make the Camaro standout even more. Stop watering down the car just to give people an option to look cool; if so then put a 4 banger in the Corvette so more people can buy it. Hmmmn?

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Kobra_Klutch

Or maybe this: Chevy should just stop making entry level variants of the Camaro and focus more towards the performance oriented buyer if the car is being marketed as a true sports car. Skip the 2.0 or the V6 just make bad ass V8s; take it or leave it mentality. And if Chevy wants to make a sporty version V6 or 4 banger coupe call it something else and make the Camaro standout even more. Stop watering down the car just to give people an option to look cool; if so then put a 4 banger in the Corvette so more people can buy it. Hmmmn?

The "watered down" cars are the only reason the platform exists. That is of course unless you want to start paying $80k for a base 1ss.

[JaxChris]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The Fbody was cancelled due to sustained sales in the 3500/month range. 1 year is not going to kill the program though, as it will likely take several sustained low production years.

What history are you quoting? The Camaro was canceled when sales volume dropped below 80,000/year over the preceding 36 months. That is 6,600/month. Chevy kept increasing the price and lowering production to combat sales declines, which actually made it worse. The cancellation notice went out to dealers and magazines in 1999 after the Mustang outsold the Camaro more than 2.5:1 in 1998. Production was stopped in May 2001 because sales were so slow they were able to begin the next model year earlier each year after it was known the 4th gen was being canned. That had the 2002 run finished in the middle of 2001 because of a glut of inventory due to pricing the car out of competition.

This is exactly what is happening now.

Year: Mustang#/Camaro#
94: 123,198/ 119,934
95: 185,986/ 122,844
96: 126,483/ 66,827
97: 100,254/ 95,812
98: 170,642/ 77,198
99: 126,067/ 42,098
00: 218,525/ 45,417
01: 155,162/ 29,009

We'll be lucky to see a 2021 Camaro. I don't think we'll get a 2022 55th Anniversary model.

[mt3130]

Originally Posted by Kobra_Klutch

Or maybe this: Chevy should just stop making entry level variants of the Camaro and focus more towards the performance oriented buyer if the car is being marketed as a true sports car. Skip the 2.0 or the V6 just make bad ass V8s; take it or leave it mentality. And if Chevy wants to make a sporty version V6 or 4 banger coupe call it something else and make the Camaro standout even more. Stop watering down the car just to give people an option to look cool; if so then put a 4 banger in the Corvette so more people can buy it. Hmmmn?

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The "watered down" cars are the only reason the platform exists. That is of course unless you want to start paying $80k for a base 1ss.

It seems someone else already beat me to reply why getting rid of the lower trims makes zero sense.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

What history are you quoting? The Camaro was canceled when sales volume dropped below 80,000/year over the preceding 36 months. That is 6,600/month. Chevy kept increasing the price and lowering production to combat sales declines, which actually made it worse. The cancellation notice went out to dealers and magazines in 1999 after the Mustang outsold the Camaro more than 2.5:1 in 1998. Production was stopped in May 2001 because sales were so slow they were able to begin the next model year earlier each year after it was known the 4th gen was being canned. That had the 2002 run finished in the middle of 2001 because of a glut of inventory due to pricing the car out of competition.

This is exactly what is happening now.

Year: Mustang#/Camaro#
94: 123,198/ 119,934
95: 185,986/ 122,844
96: 126,483/ 66,827
97: 100,254/ 95,812
98: 170,642/ 77,198
99: 126,067/ 42,098
00: 218,525/ 45,417
01: 155,162/ 29,009

We'll be lucky to see a 2021 Camaro. I don't think we'll get a 2022 55th Anniversary model.

Those are the same numbers I quoted. Once they dropped to the sub 50k vehicle range with a stockpile of cars on the lot, the end was near.
My point was, this is year one, not year three.

[JaxChris]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Those are the same numbers I quoted. Once they dropped to the sub 50k vehicle range with a stockpile of cars on the lot, the end was near.
My point was, this is year one, not year three.

The Camaro was canceled at the beginning of 1999 (internally it was decided in late 1998). The pitiful 1999-2001 sales were a result of everyone knowing they were going away & rising prices. Then that caused the glut of inventory that advanced the start of each production year and led to all the 2002's being built in 2001. There might have been 1000-2000 of the 2002 Camaro's actually sold in 2002.

So waiting for sales to drop below 4k is already too late. And cars were selling about the same pace as they are right now. See the leap in Mustang6g sales? That is a precursor as well.

US automakers just released statements that the US market peaked last year and they are looking at options to control offerings, streamline the product lineup and maintain profits for shareholders. This usually means chopping off the lowest performers (excluding halo vehicles like the Corvette & Silverado). You'll likely see a redesign of the Cruze in a couple years, the elimination of the Spark or Sonic, the Impala & SS sedan will get replaced by a single large 4-door and the City small van will get dropped.

You could also see the Camaro get axed again if it doesn't find some footing. Once sales have paid for the plant rehab that was done to make the car, it can get cut at any time after that.

Expect to see Buick spun off to a separate company (like Cadillac & Lincoln have done) or killed off. GMC is pretty isolated, but even they could see cuts.

All of this is not just a Camaro problem. There is a major problem in the auto industry as a whole right now. Our Camaro has a better than not chance of being a casualty of this problem.

[Kobra_Klutch]

Sales are about to drop even lower because the peak season has passed. The cars are priced so high that once they do offer rebates the average customer will believe they're getting a deal of the century; not! These cars are making money for GM but the average consumer who isn't hell bent on getting a deal will spend the money on anything new. Just think for a second, are you a bargain shopper or a person who always looks for a way to get the price lowered on things you purchase? Now think of those people you know who don't haggle and just pay what's on the sticker because they don't want to hassle over the price; the former types are the minorities just like the enthusiasts.

I purchased my truck when Dodge started closing dealerships back in 2009; I got almost
33% off MSRP. Did Dodge still make money off me, yes, but not for their usual rake-in.
Consumers have most of the power especially when there are so many other options out there. My advice to anyone who doesn't have to buy now to wait because there will be better deals coming soon. Just keep in mind how much these cars are marked up when compared to the incentives they offer later in each year. If you can't see it for anything else at least factor that aspect for your wallet's sake.