2011 Z/28 Camaro "Reality"

[13F20]

In regards to being very $. I am all to aware of that. People are already saying that the car would be limited production. They are expecting to pay $45-50K, for the car. So keep the car as is for the most part. Maybe add a blower and do a cam/ pulley swap. Lower the car 1 inch with the reduced weight. Tune the suspension similar but not exactly like the ZR1, and there you go. Reduce weight with synthetic or elemental materials, and there you have it. No CAFÉ issues, no use of a more expensive engine, and every ones happy.

[kevin2323]

Originally Posted by 13F20

In regards to being very $. I am all to aware of that. People are already saying that the car would be limited production. They are expecting to pay $45-50K, for the car. So keep the car as is for the most part. Maybe add a blower and do a cam/ pulley swap. Lower the car 1 inch with the reduced weight. Tune the suspension similar but not exactly like the ZR1, and there you go. Reduce weight with synthetic or elemental materials, and there you have it. No CAFÉ issues, no use of a more expensive engine, and every ones happy.

probably more towards the 50-60k range IMO.

[JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

The problem I always see with the Z/28 issue is that everyone either wants one of two things...

A. forced induction engine.
B. reduced weight.

The reasons against EITHER of these is so obvious its hard for me not to shake my head ...

With forced induction you start to kill gas mileage... so this is going to be a cafe negative meaning that they will want to limit the total # of produced units.. aka a marked up specialty vehicle. So all those waiting will either have to wait longer (due to lines and limited production) OR they will be paying a LARGE premium.

With reduced weight... people forget that this camaro was built on a SEDAN chasis meaning that a good portion of the weight is in the chassis, NOT in things like electronics, accessories etc.. The most absolute most the camaro could lose would be about 500lbs. BUT to achieve this you will be losing basically everything but the engine and required equipment (front airbags, turn signals, wipers, third brake light). What this means is you wont get a back seat, or sound dampening, or carpet, or a dash, or power anything, no sound, no radio, no hvac.... and now how many do you think when they charge upwards of 40-50k(yes changes in the manufacturing pocess cost this much!) for a stripped out hull? People will look at it and say.. nope i can have all that back for the same price for a GT500 with less of the wait time.

Honestly if 400HP+ HP isn't enough for you then pretty much ANY production car under 40k isn't for you. If you want to spend more than that start looking into the right market because the camaro isn't it.

Dude you just made some really good sense! I like how you worded that! LoL!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

The problem I always see with the Z/28 issue is that everyone either wants one of two things...

A. forced induction engine.
B. reduced weight.

The reasons against EITHER of these is so obvious its hard for me not to shake my head ...

With forced induction you start to kill gas mileage... so this is going to be a cafe negative meaning that they will want to limit the total # of produced units.. aka a marked up specialty vehicle. So all those waiting will either have to wait longer (due to lines and limited production) OR they will be paying a LARGE premium.

With reduced weight... people forget that this camaro was built on a SEDAN chasis meaning that a good portion of the weight is in the chassis, NOT in things like electronics, accessories etc.. The most absolute most the camaro could lose would be about 500lbs. BUT to achieve this you will be losing basically everything but the engine and required equipment (front airbags, turn signals, wipers, third brake light). What this means is you wont get a back seat, or sound dampening, or carpet, or a dash, or power anything, no sound, no radio, no hvac.... and now how many do you think when they charge upwards of 40-50k(yes changes in the manufacturing pocess cost this much!) for a stripped out hull? People will look at it and say.. nope i can have all that back for the same price for a GT500 with less of the wait time.

Honestly if 400HP+ HP isn't enough for you then pretty much ANY production car under 40k isn't for you. If you want to spend more than that start looking into the right market because the camaro isn't it.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I wonder though, Diarmadhi...if you nailed the reasons we're talking about this....but kept them separate. When the Z28 comes out...chances are it'll cost more than an SS. Probably, like you said, in the range of ~$40,000-$50,000. As far as I can tell -- people generally accept this. So...the underlying argument at this point is what to do with that extra $10-$20 grand?

Should they take some mass out (maybe a little less than the V6), bump the V8 a few ponies, and severely beat down the GT500 on the track?

Or should they strap on a blower, reinforce the drive-train, and beat down the GT500 on the drag strip?

Both of these routes would stay comfortable in the sense that you still have HVAC, and radio, etc...but they differ in their approach to performance and conformity to CAFE, imo.

I'd plan on spending about $45K on what I'd like regarding a higher performance Camaro. It would definately be nice for GM to do on of these (the latter, preferably ) but I guess we have to wait and see

Originally Posted by kevin2323

probably more towards the 50-60k range IMO.

I wonder how much of the price of an LS7 is affected by the materials they use. The titanium rods, according to: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...price+ls7+rods are $441 EACH Additionally, considering the price (allegedly - http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f7/c6...enders-106015/) of a single CF fender on a Z06 is about $400 a fender, the talk of using exotic materials, and keeping price close to a GT500, IMVHO, just don't add up. GM isn't going to use titanium in the suspension, and they aren't likely to go through more crash testing for CF body panels so I just can't bite on the whole light-weight thing. People may point to aftermarket examples as being relatively cheap, however, I'm pretty sure GM's testing standards really explode the price because of all the R&D they do on everything. No disrespect, but I just don't see the light-weight thing happening. I don't see a $70K Camaro, from GM, in the cards...

[fastball]

I didn't even bother reading this entire thread after the first post before I thought of my response......

There is nothing to say about any Z/28 untill you hear it directly from Fbodfather. I'm sick and tired of people formulating their own opinions, and then trying to shop them around to us as "facts", when all they are are myths and possibilities.

Untill Scott gives us the truth as he knows them to be, whether they will make the Z/28 or not, and if so how it will be built, there is nothing for anyone to say about it.

As Scott has said, all their plans for the car are up in the air, but nothing has been comitted. In other words, if he don't know, then YOU don't know!

Give it a rest and move on with life. Buy an SS and be happy.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by fastball

I didn't even bother reading this entire thread after the first post before I thought of my response......

There is nothing to say about any Z/28 untill you hear it directly from Fbodfather. I'm sick and tired of people formulating their own opinions, and then trying to shop them around to us as "facts", when all they are are myths and possibilities.

Untill Scott gives us the truth as he knows them to be, whether they will make the Z/28 or not, and if so how it will be built, there is nothing for anyone to say about it.

As Scott has said, all their plans for the car are up in the air, but nothing has been comitted. In other words, if he don't know, then YOU don't know!

Give it a rest and move on with life. Buy an SS and be happy.

With all due respect, I don't think it's appropropriate to leave a response without reading the content of the thread if you are going to tell someone what to do, buy, or be happy with. If you're sick and tired of reading threads like these, then stop. Some people value opinions and ideas of others.

JMVHO.

[2010_5thgen]

if the CAFE regulations dont go into affect until 2020, i dont understand why they cant build the s/c version now and then still have time to change a few things about it and get within the standards before then. they could build it for a few years and then totally re do it before regulations kick in.

[big_dog]

personally speaking, i just want a camaro with the name plate "Z/28", i dont care if its lighter, or flames come out of the tailpipe, cause for me to say "I onw a Camaro Z/28", thats like saying "I own you, now go get me a donut", but anyway no one else can associate their car name with Z/28 unless they have a camaro, and Z/28 is like the most unique title EVER

i wouldnt mind some fire breathing tailpipes though

[fastball]

Originally Posted by big_dog

personally speaking, i just want a camaro with the name plate "Z/28", i dont care if its lighter, or flames come out of the tailpipe, cause for me to say "I onw a Camaro Z/28", thats like saying "I own you, now go get me a donut", but anyway no one else can associate their car name with Z/28 unless they have a camaro, and Z/28 is like the most unique title EVER

i wouldnt mind some fire breathing tailpipes though

I do agree with you here.

I personally believe that the reason GM opted to go with SS instead of Z/28 is due to their marketing department or lack thereof.

The Z/28 badge on what is now the SS would not be a mockery or degrading the herritage of the name. It has 390-422 hp and lots of torque. With the handling we are being promised and the option of 20" rims and Brembo brakes, theres nothing about what is now the SS that would be a slap in the face to the Z/28. But, since the current GM brain(less) trust seems to think every Chevy ever made should have an SS version, SS it is and Z/28 may be just a pipe dream now.

[13F20]

Originally Posted by seattlecamaroboy

How many threads is this guy going to create about the "Z28" that was never mentioned officially once? Talk about ridiculous. It's like watching the stages of grief after a death. Anger, Reckoning, Bargaining, Acceptance. He's on bargaining now. Trying to convince himself that there is another way to build his fantasy car. LOL HAHAAHHA

Dude, for your own sanity, here's your answer. Buy a damn SS when it comes out and shut up Convince yourself that you don't need to have more than 425 horses. Or if you do, bolt on a damn supercharger.

Preach it to him brother. Smack him on the back of the head and make him say it three times. I will build it, I will build it, I will build it. Here comes the farm hand whap.

[gunslinger]

Power has almost always been cheaper for going fast than light parts (other than taking out back seats and spare tire), so I would look to extra HP v. less weight in the interest of keeping costs down.

How much does an LSA cost over an LS3? Maybe $6K at the most (the LS3 is ~$6K, while the LS7, the most expensive, is at $13K).

I put the price of an LS9 around $15K and the LSA at about $12k. Plus the cost of some stiffer springs, revalved shocks, bigger sway bars, better tires and different wheels. Plus about and extra 200 pounds, putting the Z28 at 4000 LBS and probably about 13-14 MPG in the City and probably close to 24-25 MPG on the HWY.

You are looking at about an extra $10-12K on top of an SS based at $35K(?)

So for $45K-50K you can have a S/C Camaro with excellent reliability and 550HP. And as fast as some VERY expensive cars (in a straight line).

[JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR]

Well since it seems nothin is going right about a Z/28 coming out anytime soon...I plan to modify my SS to a custom Z/28 :-)!!! I will be getting a procharger supercharger when PC releases it! Get some new pistons, heads, valves/springs, block bored, lifters, rods, headers, pipes and mufflers, a new suspension, then I'll take it to Livernois Motorsports and have it proffessionally tuned maybe dyno'ed and whatever else I can do for more HP/tq numbers. IDK everything about performance yet so I won't be doing everything myself. Just some things. I'm gonna get some hideway lights maybe or an aftermarket grill/front fascia and all Z/28 trim/badges. If anyone knows some things I can do to make my car lighter inform me please!!!(I love the people on this site you all are so helpful!) I don't care about keeping the car orginal. I just want the car to be more powerful/agressive/nasty and more light than factory and look a little better. I wanna have my own self made Z/28 till they actually bring it out if they decide to do it.

Originally Posted by Dan

You dont know that as fact at all. They have admitted to having a couple of supercharged mules running around so this would seem to be the way they want to go. What the Z was in 69 has absolutely nothing to do with what it may or not be today.



No, the only way a Z/28 will be made is if GM decides they can make money off it and not screw their CAFE figures up. If they can they will, if they can't, they wont. Simple as that.

Good point...I really don't care if they do or don't but if they make the Z I'm getting it along with my SS that I'll already have! Anyway...VERY good point!!!

[13F20]

Originally Posted by JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR

Good point...I really don't care if they do or don't but if they make the Z I'm getting it along with my SS that I'll already have! Anyway...VERY good point!!!

Bro I am with you in that matter. I will be buying the SS and get the Z28 to add to the collection if it comes out. Those of you that want the Z28, get the SS and modify it, or still get the SS and when and if the Z28 comes out then just use the SS as trade in value and drive off in the Z28. The few people that keep saying they want a Z28 will not cause GM to build or release it any time soon. When GM revealed the Camaro concept back in 2006 there were over 2.5 million petitions sent in to ask that the car be built. Not to mention that people were also sending GM cashers check to place advanced orders. I don’t think it he Z28 has sparker that level of interest.

[JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR]

What I want everybody who can afford it to understand is that if you get any version of the CaMaRo that we FkN love so FkN much when it releases, wait it out see what happens for a Z/28 and then go from there. Check it from my POV...The Z/28 has always been my favorite edition of most CaMaRos over all these years! I would love it if they brought it back. But since they're not I'm gonna just get an SS and wait it out for the Z because I can't stand not having a 2010 CaMaRo for too much longer. I just gotta have one no matter what! Now if they bring out that Z/28 I'll trade my current 2010 CaMaRo in or SaLe it locally or on Ebay and go buy that brand new Z/28 CaMaRo that I've been wanting. Thats how I feel about this whole thing.