08-28-2010, 06:39 AM | #15 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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Quote:
My Camaro weighs in race ready at just under 4,200 pounds with driver or is almost THREE time heavier than a F1 car. The rear wheels on an F1 car are for the sake of discussion ONLT 12" wide. To run a similar tire for the Camaro the rear tires would need to be THREE FEET WIDE. Most fast production car are under tired. They have too much weight, the brakes are too powerful and the engine two powerful for the size of the tire. A very hard suspension will make you very fast for very few laps. You will frequently see NASCAR teams run a coil bound car in qualifying. The coil bound car is really fast. It will also east tires in no more than 6 laps. They NEVER race coil bound. Once again they are under tired. Your Camaro is under tired. A very hard suspension will do nothing but eat your tires. A rock hard suspension will build heat rapidly in the tires causing them to get greasy. Once they are greasy they are slow. You can see from Pedders track testing that we are in balance for the car -- in harmony with just the right amount of compliance and the right amount of control. Lap after lap the cars are consistent because we work within the limitations of the vehicle. Short answer, Pedders has the fastest lap times on the track for daily driven cars. The Pro Touring guys build phenomenal street machines. They are excellent drivers. We are faster than all of them in a car that is heavier than any of them and we run 100% stock control arms without a single chassis brace in the Camaro. What do we lose by being street civil and track ready -- NOTHING! |
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08-28-2010, 09:28 AM | #16 | |
Drives: 2012 Challenger SRT8 Auto Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 839
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Quote:
I do also see what you mean by if you were to lower the car enough it brings the top mono tube much closer to the bump stop and possibly limiting the travel range of the unit but I wonder if a ride height that low would ever be required or even functional on the Camaro.
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"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." - Benjamin Franklin LS3 Camshaft Swap Do-It-Yourself Instructions - 2010 LS3 gone but not forgotten!!! |
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08-28-2010, 03:56 PM | #17 |
Drives: car Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 801
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I have a BMR strut brace that fastens to the top of the shock towers. Can I run the Pedders coil-overs and retain the strut brace? Thanks, Bob
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Upgrades to suspension, brakes, motor and appearance. 482.7 RWHP- 434.2 RWT - All motor.
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08-28-2010, 03:58 PM | #18 |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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08-28-2010, 08:19 PM | #19 | |
Drives: 1968 LS2 powered - Bad Penny Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 235
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Quote:
What tires do you run? I'm on PS2s now.. and yea, I know my car weighs 800 lbs less but that's not my fault It would be fun.. I have a fairly competent PT car, and we fixed out problems from Spring Mountain.. Buttonwillow on the 25th? It would be hoot. Also, I seem to remember a few being faster than you at Spring Mountain.. Just sayin.. The red car is badass.. and I nailed some killer shots of it at Gingerman, looked great and was crazy fast.
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Tech Editor for Camaro Performers Magazine
1968 Camaro - 461 RHS LS 700hp, various stuff, called Bad Penny 1968 Camaro - In progress, called Track Rat 2010 Camaro - DSE Suspension, Baer 6S Brakes, Boze Wheels, Nitto NT05 Tires, JBA Exhaust and long tubes, Magnacharger TVS, 660rwhp Forged Eagle 416 LS3 short block, ADM fuel system, Lingenfelter GT-9 cam, G-Force axles, Anvil and Seibon CF parts, Centerforce Dual-Disc Clutch www.fquick.com/steve1968ls2 |
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08-28-2010, 09:29 PM | #20 |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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Steve,
That is a tempting invitation. You are right there will a couple of cars faster than us at the Optima event. The two weaknesses we had in 2010 were running OE brakes and the computer pulling timing out of the car due to IATs. The CTS-V brakes resolved the braking and the Stage II inter cooler from ProCharger resolved the IAT issues. I wish I could make the 25th. Yancy mentioned it too... Allow me to return the compliment you have one bad '68. |
08-28-2010, 09:55 PM | #21 |
Drives: 701 RWHP Lingenfelter/Pedders Beast Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: El Paso
Posts: 2,973
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Man you guys out east and on the west coast have all the fun tracks. I am stuck in the desert about 4 hours from the closest track. I guess I need to start planning more road trips.
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Lingenfelter forged balanced and blueprinted LS3, Maggie TVS 2300 LPE 9.5" Rearend 3.73,LPE dual disk clutch,10/14 rib belt drive,
MTI shifter,RPM Level VI,Corsa stainless cat back, Racing Brake Rotors, LPE calipers, LPE twin fuel pumps, American Racing long tube headers, GT9 cam Port and polished heads and an ADM majic tune. 701 RWHP,Fully Pedderized w/complete bushings and Sportsryder Supercar Remote resevior coilovers. CCW 505t's Nitto Invo's and DR's Beware of the LPE Brotherhood! |
08-28-2010, 10:31 PM | #22 | |
Drives: 1968 LS2 powered - Bad Penny Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 235
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Quote:
But it would be fun.. get Boris Said or someone to pilot both all out.. see what happens. My guess is it would be close one way or the other. Then again.. sometimes I wish I had your air conditioning! lol
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Tech Editor for Camaro Performers Magazine
1968 Camaro - 461 RHS LS 700hp, various stuff, called Bad Penny 1968 Camaro - In progress, called Track Rat 2010 Camaro - DSE Suspension, Baer 6S Brakes, Boze Wheels, Nitto NT05 Tires, JBA Exhaust and long tubes, Magnacharger TVS, 660rwhp Forged Eagle 416 LS3 short block, ADM fuel system, Lingenfelter GT-9 cam, G-Force axles, Anvil and Seibon CF parts, Centerforce Dual-Disc Clutch www.fquick.com/steve1968ls2 |
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08-30-2010, 08:42 AM | #23 |
Drives: 325is Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lansing
Posts: 50
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I agree with Robertway. There is no preload on the spring unless you adjust ride height to the shocks maximum extension. Once you reach this point, ride height is no longer changing, but you are then compressing the spring, creating preload (force). I'm not sure who would ever want to do this.
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08-30-2010, 10:34 AM | #24 |
Drives: 2008 GMC Denali Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oakland, Oregon
Posts: 75
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Can anyone tell me how the Pedders set up compares to the ones on the SLP Camaro, the Lingenfelter Camaro and the Callaway Camaro? I'm more interested in the differences one would notice in actual street driving along twisty mountain roads than differences on the track.
Thanks, Bruce |
08-30-2010, 10:49 AM | #25 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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Quote:
Put a coil into a load cell. A typical measure of coil strength / rate is pounds per inch. Deviating from the sweet spot on the coilovers for best operation has made the coil looser by an inch / 25mm or tighter by an inch / 25mm. It isn't hard to do the mat given this information. At Pedders we deal with 2 to 5mm of preload AT FULL DROOP. In a coilover that adjusts by spring perch the same measurement with be 10 TO 20 times that amount. As I said before, we used to make coilover that adjusted by spring perch. It was our best technology at the time. Now we use a true racing style coilover to maintain jounce / bound travel and coil pre-load regardless of ride height. This pictures shows both the assembled and burst ZETA Rear Coilovers / Struts. There is preload in the OE assembly BEFORE it goes into the vehicle. The same is true of the fronts. Here is an absolute eXtreme coilover that we used to use. It adjusted ride height by raising or lowering the spring perch. It used a helper spring. It was better than the OE strut assembly but is no where near as good as the Xa or Supercar for all the reasons already listed in the thread. The old style rear Xa for ZETA used a longer wind for the rear coil to avoid the helper / keeper spring. It still adjusted ride height by spring perch with all the associated negatives. There is NO benefit to adjusting ride height by raising and lowering spring perches. There are ONLY negatives. That is why we developed our Xa range -- state-of-the-art technology with excellent ride quality and excellent performance. Our goal could not be met with the dated eXtreme technology or any system that required the spring perch movement for ride height adjustment. |
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08-30-2010, 12:22 PM | #26 | ||
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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Quote:
You are asking a very biased person to answer this question. My answer would be that only the Pedders setup is a GMPP part. I would like to think that GMPP is impressed by our quality of part, quality of ride and level of performance. When GM decided to build a body in white circle track race car with Circle Track magazine they selected Pedders as the suspension of choice. What differences would you find -- ride quality and control would be superior IMO. If we look at track numbers, they speak for themselves. At some point the discussion has to end and the performance must be proven on track. Here are the results from the Motor State Pro Touring Challenge. This list includes the Suspension Manufacturer's Pro Touring Cars built to demonstrate how well their suspension parts perform. The Pedders lap time if from last October. We ran at Gingerman jut a few weeks ago in weather and track conditions similar to the Pro Touring Challenge. We are faster now than we were then. we run 100% OEM transmission, driveline, differential, half-shafts and suspension arms. We do NOT run a single chassis brace on the Camaro. Not one. Pedders Camaro runs RACE CAR SPEEDS on STREET TIRES. We don't compare our Camaro to street cars. We compare our 5th Gen Pedderised Camaro to RACE CARS. http://forums.peddersusa.com/imageho...5c61975f6c.jpg For the record, Pedders used FOUR chassis braces on the Mustang, because that is what the Mustang requires. The Camaro does NOT require a single brace to perform like a race car under the mot demanding conditions. |
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08-30-2010, 01:46 PM | #27 |
Mike and Debbie
Drives: 2014 Corvette Stingray 3LT Z51 Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Antonio TX
Posts: 865
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I will buy some Pedders products if someone can answer this question:
What kind of bear is best? Also do Pedders SS brake lines work on V6s? I ask here since this question went unanswered over on the stop faster thread. These will be my firstest Pedders products if they do.
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08-30-2010, 01:58 PM | #28 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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