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Old 10-03-2013, 08:50 PM   #1
Tbosco
 
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Chassis stiffeners

Does anyone feel if they are necessary? if so who's would be recommended?
Thanks
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:59 AM   #2
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The questions is for what purpose? Street, road race, drag race, 1000 hp?

In general the answer is: no they are not needed for 99% of us.

Bracing was a requirement on 3rd gens as they would tear the b pillars, especially the L98 powered cars. Bracing also became all the rage with the tuner scene as the economy cars were turned into race cars for which their parent company never intended them to see such high loads.

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Old 10-04-2013, 07:48 AM   #3
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Matt,
Thank you I guess the 3 rd generation cars had me thinking it was needed.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:04 AM   #4
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It depends on who you ask whether they are needed...BMR and Hotchkis might have a different take on this issue fron Dropspeed...I had a BMR Chassis Brace on my 2010....I know many who have Hotchkis Chassis Brace and Strut Brace...different approaches to making these Camaro's handle...on my 1LE, I went with Pedder's set up using bushings this time to stiffen the suspension up, along with coilovers, sways, etc.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbosco View Post
Matt,
Thank you I guess the 3 rd generation cars had me thinking it was needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by So Cal Camaro View Post
It depends on who you ask whether they are needed...BMR and Hotchkis might have a different take on this issue fron Dropspeed...I had a BMR Chassis Brace on my 2010....I know many who have Hotchkis Chassis Brace and Strut Brace...different approaches to making these Camaro's handle...on my 1LE, I went with Pedder's set up using bushings this time to stiffen the suspension up, along with coilovers, sways, etc.
I did leave the 1% open for interpretation! ......For the majority it is not "needed". A lot of us remember the 3rd Gen F-body and if you were a 3rd gen owner (I had two, 86 5.0 Firebird and 87 Formula 350 in the early 90s) it was not just "needed"...... it was flat out a requirement to prevent the cars from tearing the B pillar.

So is it "needed"...not for the majority....But again it depends on your plans for the car.

Matt
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:38 AM   #6
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I did leave the 1% open for interpretation! ......For the majority it is not "needed". A lot of us remember the 3rd Gen F-body and if you were a 3rd gen owner (I had two, 86 5.0 Firebird and 87 Formula 350 in the early 90s) it was not just "needed"...... it was flat out a requirement to prevent the cars from tearing the B pillar.

So is it "needed"...not for the majority....But again it depends on your plans for the car.

Matt
The 3rd gen F-body and even 4th gen F-body are considerably different from the 5th gen Camaros when it comes to chassis stiffeners. Like you said it was something really needed to absolutely have on the 3rd and 4th gen cars but it is definitely not as high a priority on the these new Camaros.

Some people will say that you need them and some people will say you don't but all I can really do is give you our (BMR's) aspect on them. We here at BMR feel there is always a way to improve on stuff as it comes from the factory. The chassis on these late model Camaros is very much improved from the past cars but there is always room for improvement and that is why we developed our subframe connectors/tunnel brace. As far as performance goes there are other parts that I would for sure recommend before the subframe connectors/tunnel brace but they have there place and will make a noticeable difference depending on what you are doing with the car and your driving style.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:45 AM   #7
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As far as performance goes there are other parts that I would for sure recommend before the subframe connectors/tunnel brace but they have there place and will make a noticeable difference depending on what you are doing with the car and your driving style.

Hi Kyle,

What are the items BMR recommends before the subframe connector/tunnel brace...

EDIT...for the 2013+ as there have been some minor changes from the 10-12MY

Thank you,
Matt
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:13 AM   #8
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To my knowledge no one has posted data to support a performance gain in the 5th Gen achieved by adding structure or braces. The front sub-frame is going no where pinned with 6 bolts. The rear sub-frame has a large pilot from the monocoque to locate it and four bolts to hold it. Aside from motion in the OEM sub-frame bushings, it doesn't move either.

Is your 5th Gen structurally sound? Take a close look at these crash test videos.





Watch the engine move while the front sub-frame remains almost stationary at 14 Seconds

The front sub-frame mounts with six bolts and two locating pins. There are no rubber bushes. The front sub-frame connects well forward and well behind the front ‘axle’ for strength and stability. As you could see in the frontal impact video the engine was moving backwards from the impact (at roughly 14 seconds), but the front sub-frame remained well located. When GM designed the Camaro they built it well, very well. It was engineered to have an exceptionally strong monocoque. A solid monocoque translates into a higher perception of quality while enhancing performance and function. In the following series of pictures you can see how the 5th Gen Camaro has numerous 'chassis braces' built in at the factory using state-of the art design in the form of shape, construction and materials --

High-strength low-alloy (HSLA) steel is a type of alloy steel that provides better mechanical properties or greater resistance to corrosion than carbon steel. HSLA steels vary from other steels in that they aren't made to meet a specific chemical composition, but rather to specific mechanical properties. They have a carbon content between 0.05–0.25% to retain formability and weldability. Other alloying elements include up to 2.0% manganese and small quantities of copper, nickel, niobium, nitrogen, vanadium, chromium, molybdenum, titanium, calcium, rare earth elements, or zirconium.[1][2] Copper, titanium, vanadium, and niobium are added for strengthening purposes.[2] These elements are intended to alter the microstructure of carbon steels, which is usually a ferrite-pearlite aggregate, to produce a very fine dispersion of alloy carbides in an almost pure ferrite matrix. This eliminates the toughness-reducing effect of a pearlitic volume fraction, yet maintains and increases the material's strength by refining the grain size, which in the case of ferrite increases yield strength by 50% for every halving of the mean grain diameter. Precipitation strengthening plays a minor role, too. Their yield strengths can be anywhere between 250–590 megapascals (36,000–86,000 psi). Due to their higher strength and toughness HSLA steels usually require 25 to 30% more power to form, as compared to carbon steels

Martensitic Ultra High Strength Steel Maraging steels (a portmanteau of martensitic and aging) are iron alloys which are known for possessing superior strength and toughness without losing malleability, although they cannot hold a good cutting edge. 'Aging' refers to the extended heat-treatment process. These steels are a special class of low-carbon ultra-high-strength steels which derive their strength not from carbon, but from precipitation of inter-metallic compounds. The principal alloying element is 15 to 25% nickel.[1] Secondary alloying elements are added to produce intermetallic precipitates, which include cobalt, molybdenum, and titanium.

Photos originally posted 11.11.2008 by aston70










Do you need a strut tower bar? Many assume they do. The brace was and is necessary when the roof is cut off. That is why TEAM Camaro designed and install the brace on the Vert. The brace installed on the ZL1 is indirectly related to NVH. The STB cleaned up some 'noise' on the sensors used to fine tune the MRC. The STB looks cool so it is part of the 1LE package.

It would deny the obvious to say the OE STB does nothing. It does add structure to an already robust monocoque. There is zero data available to document any gain in handling or lap times. None.



http://www.caranddriver.com/features...g-it-tech-dept

"Simons adds that he’s never seen an aftermarket strut-tower brace provide a measurable handling benefit."

We have had the fastest 5 Gen Camaro at the OPTIMA following SEMA since 2009. No modern Muscle Car (Camaro, Challenger or Mustang) has out performed us at Spring Mountain.

CamaroCross
Top 10 Fastest Cars
Camaro5Fest 4


99 ....Danny Popp........34.868 - LPE / Pedders
29....Todd Rumpkey.....35.344 - Raymond's Performance / Pedders
725..Jordan Priestly.....35.429 - JDP Motorsports / Pfadt
8......Ryan Matthews....35.516 - Detroit Speed / JRI
3......Rob Anderson......35.570 - Wretched Motorsports / Pedders
40....Tim Martin............35.997
17....Scott McAdams....36.761 Pedders
13....Mike Rupp............36.797 Pedders

54....Bryan Johnson.....37.326
5......Benjamin Parker..37.576 Pedders

The most reinforced Camaro on the list has to be Detroit Speed's. It is a stripped out, caged, shell with light weight glass, lexan... Awesome car.

Last edited by JusticePete; 10-04-2013 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:53 PM   #9
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:17 PM   #10
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Thanks for all the input, as I figured the real answer is it all depends. Plans for the car as of now would be some power and handling improvements. Any suggestions are more then welcome especially mods that have been done and work. Just would like to minimize money spent on wasted products, believe me I have spent my share. What would you do with my car guys and gals?
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:27 PM   #11
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You have to answer questions first.

What are your expectations? Do you want a straight line car, an autocross car or a road race car? Are you looking for a middle ground? What is your budget?

I am politely willing to bet the car is currently beyond your driving ability. You may benefit more from buying a helmet and spending time at the track with instruction? When you find the deficiencies based on your driving you can spend your money at that time.


Matt
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:07 PM   #12
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Would like a road race car, from driving it hard a little bit would like to see some improvements with acceleration as far as handling it sticks real well to the road. Had the rear slide out on me a little but was very controllable with some power applied. You are correct my skills do not match the car yet but that will change and would like to have some sort of direction. Minor mods for now thanks
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:29 PM   #13
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Would like a road race car, from driving it hard a little bit would like to see some improvements with acceleration as far as handling it sticks real well to the road. Had the rear slide out on me a little but was very controllable with some power applied. You are correct my skills do not match the car yet but that will change and would like to have some sort of direction. Minor mods for now thanks
Start with a tight spec Aggressive Street alignment so you know what your 1LE is capable of in bone stock trim.

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Old 10-04-2013, 08:19 PM   #14
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Would like a road race car, from driving it hard a little bit would like to see some improvements with acceleration as far as handling it sticks real well to the road. Had the rear slide out on me a little but was very controllable with some power applied. You are correct my skills do not match the car yet but that will change and would like to have some sort of direction. Minor mods for now thanks
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Start with a tight spec Aggressive Street alignment so you know what your 1LE is capable of in bone stock trim.

you'll quickly find out that the looseness you feel on the street is not there on the track with the tires warm. Car definitely needs Pedders 1le permagrin kit with a good aggressive alignment.

Hey Pete, what tire pressure shoud i start out with? I ran 44psi cold. any lower and it started chewing up the outside edge. I'm running stock suspension at the moment.
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