*Official* LSA Dyno Thread

[Nightfall gray ghost]

I cannot figure out how to get the actual dyno sheet to attach it.
If I may, I can tell you it was a dynojet. Car made 633 /612.
Mods are:ported and polished heads and blower by ligenfelter
New intake valves with new springs and retainers
New hydraulic roller cam
2.55 blower pulley,
8.66 lower
Borla atak exhaust
American racing stainless steel long tubes
C.A.I.
62 lb injectors with booster pump
Tune
I will continue to try uploading the actual sheet.
Car is a 2014 ZL1
Blower made 19.lbs boost.

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by Nightfall gray ghost

I cannot figure out how to get the actual dyno sheet to attach it.
If I may, I can tell you it was a dynojet. Car made 633 /612.
Mods are:ported and polished heads and blower by ligenfelter
New intake valves with new springs and retainers
New hydraulic roller cam
2.55 blower pulley,
8.66 lower
Borla atak exhaust
American racing stainless steel long tubes
C.A.I.
62 lb injectors with booster pump
Tune
I will continue to try uploading the actual sheet.
Car is a 2014 ZL1
Blower made 19.lbs boost.

Cool! Automatic I assume? Interestingly high boost. I would have expected more like 14 psi or so with that combo of mods.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by Nightfall gray ghost

I cannot figure out how to get the actual dyno sheet to attach it.
If I may, I can tell you it was a dynojet. Car made 633 /612.
Mods are:ported and polished heads and blower by ligenfelter
New intake valves with new springs and retainers
New hydraulic roller cam
2.55 blower pulley,
8.66 lower
Borla atak exhaust
American racing stainless steel long tubes
C.A.I.
62 lb injectors with booster pump
Tune
I will continue to try uploading the actual sheet.
Car is a 2014 ZL1
Blower made 19.lbs boost.

I find several issues with this...For one, that boost is WAY too high, there's literally physically no way that the 1.9L Eaton made 19 PSI. It probably would take a 2.4" + 10" pulley to get that number (Which is something like 50% over drive and there's no way you'd get the temps manageable). At 2.5 + 8.6 you're not even close, you should be at 14-15 pounds. Also, for a dynojet and for the mods (Heads/Cam/Ported Blower etc.) the power is, sorry to say, quite low even for 93. You should be able to hit 620-630 without having to open the engine for Cam/Heads or even a Ported Blower. If everything with the build is right and you were on your average dynojet, I see no reason that a car with that build should make less than 650-675 RWHP. It should push 700. If it was a hot day + exceptionally stingy dyno and a poor tune then maybe.

Did you get a baseline? Who tuned it? Did you check for belt slip? Cracked plugs? Is it pulling timing/spark knock or similar tuning things? It seems you're pretty light/have no cooling mods...A heat exchanger and expansion tank would do you a lot of good.

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

I find several issues with this...For one, that boost is WAY too high, there's literally physically no way that the 1.9L Eaton made 19 PSI. It probably would take a 2.4" + 10" pulley to get that number (Which is something like 50% over drive and there's no way you'd get the temps manageable). At 2.5 + 8.6 you're not even close, you should be at 14-15 pounds. Also, for a dynojet and for the mods (Heads/Cam/Ported Blower etc.) the power is, sorry to say, quite low even for 93. You should be able to hit 620-630 without having to open the engine for Cam/Heads or even a Ported Blower. If everything with the build is right and you were on your average dynojet, I see no reason that a car with that build should make less than 650-675 RWHP. It should push 700. If it was a hot day + exceptionally stingy dyno and a poor tune then maybe.

Did you get a baseline? Who tuned it? Did you check for belt slip? Cracked plugs? Is it pulling timing/spark knock or similar tuning things? It seems you're pretty light/have no cooling mods...A heat exchanger and expansion tank would do you a lot of good.

Yep. If it's an M6, then I'd think 700-725 on 93 on a DJ. A few folks here make 690 or so with an M6 and without the heads or ported blower. That's why I'm hoping it's an auto, otherwise it's significantly off the mark.

With the listed mods and an auto, I'm with you. I'd think maybe 660-675 on 93 on a DJ. I'm also surprised it's only running 62lb injectors- I'm guessing those are at the limit.

I'm not trying to give you any grief on your build, ghost. It just that I would want somebody to raise the flag for me if it were my car. Did your tuner happen to log IAT2 during the run? If your intercooler pump was not running, or you had air in the lines, or a pinched line, then you could be pulling a lot of timing which would lead to the lower than expected numbers.

[Old Red Neck]

How’s that for a stock cam LSA?
Mods are 9.1” lower, 2.55 upper, New Era ported blower, custom 4.5” CAI, 2” Stainless Works headers, ID 1300’s, Squash twin 450’s, Yank ZL1 2800 converter, E83 and Asylum Motorsports tuning. The car has been 10.05 @ 134 with 70ish less hp. Should see some solid 9’s now!

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by Old Red Neck

How’s that for a stock cam LSA?

Nice!!!
That's some serious thump at the rollers through an auto!

Not bad for an "Old Red Neck."

.

[Nightfall gray ghost]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

Yep. If it's an M6, then I'd think 700-725 on 93 on a DJ. A few folks here make 690 or so with an M6 and without the heads or ported blower. That's why I'm hoping it's an auto, otherwise it's significantly off the mark.

With the listed mods and an auto, I'm with you. I'd think maybe 660-675 on 93 on a DJ. I'm also surprised it's only running 62lb injectors- I'm guessing those are at the limit.

I'm not trying to give you any grief on your build, ghost. It just that I would want somebody to raise the flag for me if it were my car. Did your tuner happen to log IAT2 during the run? If your intercooler pump was not running, or you had air in the lines, or a pinched line, then you could be pulling a lot of timing which would lead to the lower than expected numbers.

It's a 6 speed, and I had figured about 710 or so. I was very disappointed in the results. It was a cool day, 60's or so. The tune is a street tune, it was not tuned on the dyno. The build is genuine, and I am a bit perplexed. It's basically the same build that ligenfelter offers and call it their "700+" build, except we added the headers and the Borla exhaust. 2nd pull it dropped to about 619.
At this point, can the difference actually be because it's street tuned and not dyno tuned?

[Nightfall gray ghost]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

I find several issues with this...For one, that boost is WAY too high, there's literally physically no way that the 1.9L Eaton made 19 PSI. It probably would take a 2.4" + 10" pulley to get that number (Which is something like 50% over drive and there's no way you'd get the temps manageable). At 2.5 + 8.6 you're not even close, you should be at 14-15 pounds. Also, for a dynojet and for the mods (Heads/Cam/Ported Blower etc.) the power is, sorry to say, quite low even for 93. You should be able to hit 620-630 without having to open the engine for Cam/Heads or even a Ported Blower. If everything with the build is right and you were on your average dynojet, I see no reason that a car with that build should make less than 650-675 RWHP. It should push 700. If it was a hot day + exceptionally stingy dyno and a poor tune then maybe.

Did you get a baseline? Who tuned it? Did you check for belt slip? Cracked plugs? Is it pulling timing/spark knock or similar tuning things? It seems you're pretty light/have no cooling mods...A heat exchanger and expansion tank would do you a lot of good.

I may be wrong on the lower...but my automated digital boost gauge showed 19lbs .
Thanks for this info. Keep it coming.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

If the street tune was done correctly by a professional, then that shouldn't be the problem for a loss of 60+ HP. But it could be that he was never able to do perfect tuning and run the car in 4th all the way to 6500 RPM which would be around 140 MPH.

Yeah I'd definitely start trouble shooting. As noted, a Heads/Cam/Ported Blower/FBO build should be easily in the 675+ RWHP range, and could be over 700. Even with the lower octane of the 93.

I'd get it to a dyno shop with a competent LS skilled team and let them start trouble shooting.

On the Corvette Forum there was a guy with a ZR1 and same story as this car. All the work under the sun done but it just never made numbers, stuck at 590-620 RWHP. He had it checked out by many shops and tuners, nothing was ever found wrong, but it just never made the power it should (750+ RWHP). End of the day, I wonder if cars like this have an internal error that will never be right short of getting a new long block.

Did you get a baseline? Dynos can read extremely stingy for HP, but if it shows a ~150-200 RWHP gain like it should have for those mods, then it could be fine.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Did you get a baseline? Dynos can read extremely stingy for HP, but if it shows a ~150-200 RWHP gain like it should have for those mods, then it could be fine.

^^^^ This! A dyno is really hard to quantify absolutes with. If you have a baseline you can learn a lot more from the delta than the peak number. However, it's easily solved, go make a couple passes at your local dragstrip. Don't be too worried about cutting a light or making a ridiculous 60', just get the car out of the hole decent and planted, and make sure you hit your shifts nice and crisp. Trap speed with a DA measurement will tell you all you need to know about the power you're making.

[Nightfall gray ghost]

Thank you very much. The base line I used was what I read on this forum for a stock zl1 6 speed,2014.
I used 500 for my base line. My mechanic friend told me, EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID..."before you do anything else to this car, lets take it to the track with a set of tires and watch what this thing will do.
My mechanic pete studwell has been racing NHRA for many years, and has built many cars, His mustang was on the cover of FAST FORDS AND MUSTANGS. he is meticulous and trust his work.
He street tuned it as no dyno was available. He to said I can get more power if we tune it on a dyno where 4th gear max acceleration can be applied. I will get some good track tires, and let you know how I do and how my mechanic does. He knows speed...his mustang is a high 7's 188mph quarter mile car.

[RobZL1]

Since he's your friend, maybe you can easily find out things like:

- How much timing did he give it at WOT, both at max tq and at redline?
- What was the injector duty cycle?
- What AFR (or lambda equivalent) was he commanding at WOT and what was actually measured?
- What were IAT2 peaks during WOT runs?

If you can get some of this data, we can at least let you know if you're in the ballpark. I agree that dynos vary, and the trap speed will tell you the real deal. BUT- unless this particular dynojet is just waaaay (like waaaaay) far off with it's calibration, then I still believe something else is going on. Since you noted that it dropped 14 hp on the second run, my money is still on IAT2's- in other words, I think your intercooler/heat exchanger loop isn't doing its job properly. If you can get the IAT2's that were logged during the WOT runs, then we'd know if that was the issue or not.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

Since he's your friend, maybe you can easily find out things like:

- How much timing did he give it at WOT, both at max tq and at redline?
- What was the injector duty cycle?
- What AFR (or lambda equivalent) was he commanding at WOT and what was actually measured?
- What were IAT2 peaks during WOT runs?

If you can get some of this data, we can at least let you know if you're in the ballpark. I agree that dynos vary, and the trap speed will tell you the real deal. BUT- unless this particular dynojet is just waaaay (like waaaaay) far off with it's calibration, then I still believe something else is going on. Since you noted that it dropped 14 hp on the second run, my money is still on IAT2's- in other words, I think your intercooler/heat exchanger loop isn't doing its job properly. If you can get the IAT2's that were logged during the WOT runs, then we'd know if that was the issue or not.

Yep, you took the words out of my mouth in the second paragraph. Normally, if the dyno numbers were 20-30 HP out of the norm, I would just say as long as you got the before and after gains AND/OR the drag times/MPH to go along with it, then you're fine. But this dyno would have to be reading close to 100 HP low. And like you said, that 14 HP drop for no reason points to things being amiss. Also, the 19 pounds of boost? That is definitely a false readout, unless something is plugged/blocked or broken internally which could speak to both issues (Too high of boost and ~100 HP low).

Since he's your buddy, take a weekend and go over the whole car. Take the blower off, check everything you can. Get the car to a dyno and get it dyno tuned and LOG EVERYTHING if you can.

[Nightfall gray ghost]

Looks like I have some work to do. One last question...with a street tune and a handheld, is all that data logged?
In my 2004 gto I had hp tuners and everything was logged and I could see every point of interest.
But, not having a program like that, can you really get that much data, or do I go to tuning specialist like RPM Motorsports in North Carolina which is the closest, and have them install hp tuners and get the dyno tuning done?
Thank you all again for your help.