Faytals Debate of the Week: Auto or Stick

[FaytalsCamaro]

I love to have debates, It's an amazing chance to see other people's opinions on different subjects. Thats why I'm going to try this idea out and have a different debate each week. In these debates I want everyone to try and be as professional about things as possible.

If someone chooses something no need to knock them down for it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just want to know why they may have that opinion! So have fun speak your mind in a professional manner and who knows you might learn something, I always do!

*Please read the whole statement below! This isn't the usual Auto vs Manual*

First Topic, is about Automatic Vs Manual Vehicles.

The General Consensus on this is Manual is more fun, Automatic is faster. Let me change that statement up a bit for this topic. Manual cars provide more control when driving, Automatics are more efficient when shifting. Bringing up the idea of paddle shifting in our cars isnt really a good arguement for the automatic in the control department. Reason I say this is you still won't achieve that feeling of control that you get from driving Manual. Also the delay from pressing the paddle shifter to change gears and the actual action of the car changing gears is lackluster because of the delay.

High end Automobile manufacturers have realized this and tried to make a happy median for this by decreasing the delay between pressing the paddle shift and the car actually changing gears to the point that its almost instant. Although again, no matter how you look at it you still will not be able to achieve that level of control that Manuals are able to provide. Atleast it hasnt been done yet. That goes to show us that manufacturers like Lamborghini and Ferrari seem to favor Effiency over Control.

Herein lies the question. If you had owned your own manufacturing company and money was not an issue and it was geared towards car enthusiast like you and I. What would you try and strive for in your vehicles? Control or Effiency?

[Synyster]

High end dual clutch transmissions ARE instant, just adding.

To stir the pot a little I'll just say this: if you wanna go fast, choose an auto

Edit: I really didn't answer the questions did I? Lol my bad. Anyway, I'd just make both. Makes everyone happy.

[FaytalsCamaro]

Originally Posted by Synyster

High end dual clutch transmissions ARE instant, just adding.

To stir the pot a little I'll just say this: if you wanna go fast, choose an auto

Edit: I really didn't answer the questions did I? Lol my bad. Anyway, I'd just make both. Makes everyone happy.

Cheater! lol jk, guess i should clarify you can only choose one eh?

[Scalded Dog]

The question, as I read it, is too broad... control is not always better in a manual. For example, certain types of driving are far better controlled with an auto, ie, off- road vehicles. There are many situations in which climbing through difficult terrain requires the use of one foot on the gas, one on the brake, and most of us don't have a third appendage able to work a third pedal simultaneously (please, no John Holmes jokes!). For that hardcore (again, no John Holmes jokes) driving condition, only an auto will do. .................................................. .................. I understand that very few performance CARS will be put to the test of rock crawling, but the point is, in certain applications, the auto does provide more control. .................................................. .............. I'm somewhat biased, though towards preferring the auto, even for a car such as the Camaro, as it IS my hands- down only way to go. Anybody who spends time in CA freeway traffic knows that when you are stop and go driving for extended periods of time, especially while trying to eat a burger, balance a Slurpee, and talk on the phone at the same time will testify. For ME, the auto with the "manual" option on those nifty buttons is the way to go... still gives me SOME of the manual effect, by allowing me to select my gears when I feel like it, but still offering me the comfort of opting to let the car do all of the work. .................................................. .............. Hope I didn't slip into the "Auto is better" argument, just saying that it all depends on the individual driving conditions, and driver preference........................................ ...... (and besides... who ever heard of Manualbots?!?!?)

[paul84043]

The DSG tranny in my VW TDI sportwagen was capable of shifting gears in 8milliseconds. Faster than the Ferrari Enzo. And is currently one of the most advanced transmissions in the world.

It was still an auto though and I hated it.

Stick. The only way to fly.

[SGOS252382]

Most high end cars with sophisticated automatic systems are faster than manuals in all forms of racing.

Here's a test done with Porsche 911

2012 Porsche 911 7MT --- 2012 Porsche 911 PDK Auto

0-30 (sec.): 1.9 --- 1.5
0-45 (sec.): 3.0 ---- 2.6
0-60 (sec.): 4.6 ---- 3.9
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec.): 4.4 ---- 3.7
0-75 (sec.): 6.3 ----- 5.5
1/4-mile (sec @ mph): 12.7 @ 113.2 ----- 12.0 @ 116.5

[IamJacksCamaro]

If I owned a car company, I would strive for both efficiency and control. In today's society, efficiency is necessary. Wouldn't want to lose any customers because my products are viewed as inefficient. But, because I am an enthusiast, I would see to it that all my cars had the highest amount of driver control. The automatic transmissions would have a "race or track only" mode, which would give the driver full control of both up and down shifts. This would be the name for liability reasons only. Unofficially, it would be known that this mode would function properly on the street.

My own cars are almost always manual transmissions.

[FaytalsCamaro]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

Most high end cars with sophisticated automatic systems are faster than manuals in all forms of racing.

Here's a test done with Porsche 911

2012 Porsche 911 7MT --- 2012 Porsche 911 PDK Auto

0-30 (sec.): 1.9 --- 1.5
0-45 (sec.): 3.0 ---- 2.6
0-60 (sec.): 4.6 ---- 3.9
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec.): 4.4 ---- 3.7
0-75 (sec.): 6.3 ----- 5.5
1/4-mile (sec @ mph): 12.7 @ 113.2 ----- 12.0 @ 116.5

My apologies i may have worded everything wrong, it wasnt a matter of which was faster. but as a manufacturer which do you think is more important for car enthusiast

[vroomapunk]

Originally Posted by Synyster

High end dual clutch transmissions ARE instant, just adding.

To stir the pot a little I'll just say this: if you wanna go fast, choose an auto

Edit: I really didn't answer the questions did I? Lol my bad. Anyway, I'd just make both. Makes everyone happy.

Right, the new dual clutch high end trans ARE the best out there. They are closer to a "computer controlled manual" if that makes any sense. Either way, its what they are all moving to, and results in the best performance.

Personally, I like the idea of having a hand and foot free, and not having to shift in traffic. But what I really dont like, is if I had a manual, I HAVE to shift, no matter what, forever.

The auto at least gives me the choice to paddle shift or go full auto.


For an auto manufacturer, the auto with paddle shifter is getting more popular, and I really dont think people will get that upset if a manual isnt offered, because alot of the high end cars, dont even come in manual anymore, just the dual clutch as stated before, and people are still buying ferraris, porches, nissan GTRs, etc

[FaytalsCamaro]

Originally Posted by vroomapunk

Right, the new dual clutch high end trans ARE the best out there. They are closer to a "computer controlled manual" if that makes any sense. Either way, its what they are all moving to, and results in the best performance.

Personally, I like the idea of having a hand and foot free, and not having to shift in traffic. But what I really dont like, is if I had a manual, I HAVE to shift, no matter what, forever.

The auto at least gives me the choice to paddle shift or go full auto. Not

Great point made about not being tied down

[Silver-SS]

I went into the dealership wanting to buy an auto. Having preferred manuals for every car I've bought but driven autos for work and wife/relatives cars I know the ups and downs for both. With the inclusion of paddle shifting I thought for sure that I would no longer endure I-4 traffic jams with a clutch again. Until I drove one and realized Chevy put the damn paddles on the wheel instead of the column. I couldn't deal with that. My salesman and many auto enthusiasts on here believe you only need to manual shift in a straight line and that just proves that they only drag race where I actually like to take corners in my vehicle as well. Although apparently people on here are saying that the autos are faster on any track which I didn't realize, I thought they still preferred manuals on most tracks outside of drags, guess I was wrong.

[Silver-SS]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

Most high end cars with sophisticated automatic systems are faster than manuals in all forms of racing.

Here's a test done with Porsche 911

2012 Porsche 911 7MT --- 2012 Porsche 911 PDK Auto

0-30 (sec.): 1.9 --- 1.5
0-45 (sec.): 3.0 ---- 2.6
0-60 (sec.): 4.6 ---- 3.9
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec.): 4.4 ---- 3.7
0-75 (sec.): 6.3 ----- 5.5
1/4-mile (sec @ mph): 12.7 @ 113.2 ----- 12.0 @ 116.5

I didn't realize the camaro had such a sophisticated auto that it was better for road racing.

[ps2ren]

[FaytalsCamaro]

Originally Posted by ps2ren

Aww come on!!! how can i say no to that?!?!?