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Old 12-07-2010, 10:43 PM   #239
Vic'sCamaro
 
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Erik-
You been around there in under 8? Kudos!

I have one single solitary lap there, in the Nurburgring DE Aston Martin, (370hp)driven by Andreas Gulden. We passed Sabine in a 500hp M5, really made his day! She's a really nice gal in person.

Anyhoo, I have to take issue with your claim that the GTR is faster in "real world conditions". Consider your words, where you state the Ring has the most varied and demanding collection of off-camber turns, on camber, decreasing radius, increasing radius, up hill, down hill, bumps, heaves and ripples, yada, yada, you know, in short, just the most "real world" conditions crammed into one single track. Whats more "real world" than the Ring? I think the only thing its missing is some of the cobblestone streets of London, and manure debris of India.

If you look at the production car laptimes on the Ring, you can see that the ZR1 trounces the GTR there.

Also, a major US auto mag recently did a test at Buttonwillow in California. The ZR1 was faster overall than the GTR, not surprisingly, but they also had a separate "cornering time", where they digitally extracted the straight sections away from the overall laptime, and the ZR1 and GTR were tied. All that Atessa full time all-wheel drive, computer controlled for yaw, pitch and roll, torque biasing, all that high tech gizmometry, and they could only TIE the ZR1 in the corners. Not exactly a magical car in the corners, that GTR. Or if you think it really IS magical in the corners, then so is the ZR1!

So the ZR1s dominance on the Ring over the GTR is not merely due to greater power, but also for a low center of gravity, reasonable weight, great brakes, and its magnetorheological shocks, so sophisticated that Ferrari sourced them for its much vaunted Fiorano 599.

I'd say that since the Ring very much represents the "real world", and since the ZR1 spanks the GTR on the Ring, that the ZR1 is the better performer in the "real world".

And I would also agree with one of your other statements, that the solid rear axle on the current Mustang would make it suck (relatively) on the Ring. Although it does well at VIR, where there arent so many bumps to upset it, when at the limit.

I guess whats really bugging me is that I dont have a lifestyle that allows me to do the Ring repeatedly. I live vicariously through your exploits!

Last edited by Vic'sCamaro; 12-07-2010 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:53 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik@Torq View Post
Then when you look at the video after one thinks "WTF was I doing out there..." lol

/Erik
You were living every car nut's dream. A 12-mile road course with enough opportunities to surpass 120mph you may as well have a bunch of drag strips tied together in series.

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Old 12-08-2010, 09:02 AM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic'sCamaro View Post
Erik-
You been around there in under 8? Kudos!
Thanks! Words cannot explain the feeling after a fast lap, in traffic! No point-bys, passing in turns, after turns, before turns every single lap is a victory in it's way, at least if you make it all the way around haha. Doing 145mph down into the Fox Hole (Fuchsrörhe) and then changing direction upwards and feeling the car totally bottoming out and the g-forces sucking you into the seat is feeling one will never forget.


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Originally Posted by Vic'sCamaro View Post
I have one single solitary lap there, in the Nurburgring DE Aston Martin, (370hp)driven by Andreas Gulden. We passed Sabine in a 500hp M5, really made his day! She's a really nice gal in person.
Wow, that's pretty bad a**! That Aston is such a sick car. Sabine is definetely no slouch in that M5, few people have a smany laps as she does! She loves going sideways at 100+ mph with here passengers just to scare the s**t out of them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic'sCamaro View Post
Anyhoo, I have to take issue with your claim that the GTR is faster in "real world conditions". Consider your words, where you state the Ring has the most varied and demanding collection of off-camber turns, on camber, decreasing radius, increasing radius, up hill, down hill, bumps, heaves and ripples, yada, yada, you know, in short, just the most "real world" conditions crammed into one single track. Whats more "real world" than the Ring? I think the only thing its missing is some of the cobblestone streets of London, and manure debris of India.

If you look at the production car laptimes on the Ring, you can see that the ZR1 trounces the GTR there.

Also, a major US auto mag recently did a test at Buttonwillow in California. The ZR1 was faster overall than the GTR, not surprisingly, but they also had a separate "cornering time", where they digitally extracted the straight sections away from the overall laptime, and the ZR1 and GTR were tied. All that Atessa full time all-wheel drive, computer controlled for yaw, pitch and roll, torque biasing, all that high tech gizmometry, and they could only TIE the ZR1 in the corners. Not exactly a magical car in the corners, that GTR. Or if you think it really IS magical in the corners, then so is the ZR1!

So the ZR1s dominance on the Ring over the GTR is not merely due to greater power, but also for a low center of gravity, reasonable weight, great brakes, and its magnetorheological shocks, so sophisticated that Ferrari sourced them for its much vaunted Fiorano 599.

I'd say that since the Ring very much represents the "real world", and since the ZR1 spanks the GTR on the Ring, that the ZR1 is the better performer in the "real world".

I agree 100% with everything above. I just meant that the average driver would be faster in the GTR in different situations with the AWD, slick tranny etc. It takes much more skill to drive a ZR-1 fast then it does a GTR. I could have written it in a better way though lol


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Originally Posted by Vic'sCamaro View Post
And I would also agree with one of your other statements, that the solid rear axle on the current Mustang would make it suck (relatively) on the Ring. Although it does well at VIR, where there arent so many bumps to upset it, when at the limit.
Oh yes, it will! the Mustang IS a handfull when pushing it to the limit at The Ring. I loved my '06 Stang at the road course, but they were mostly nice and smooth and traction was good, but to hit a dip/bump at 140mph through a corner in the stang = a very bad day.


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Originally Posted by Vic'sCamaro View Post
I guess whats really bugging me is that I dont have a lifestyle that allows me to do the Ring repeatedly. I live vicariously through your exploits!

Haha it helps to have family there, my sister lives in Luxenburg, just 40min (at German speeds) away from The Ring. It also helps to have a wife who loves driving The Ring just as much as I do, so when we go on vacation it always ends up to be The Ring.


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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
You were living every car nut's dream. A 12-mile road course with enough opportunities to surpass 120mph you may as well have a bunch of drag strips tied together in series.


Actually, the last 3 times I have been there we have been driving the whole 17mile course! ~14 mile northern loop AND the ~3 mile GP Formula 1 track! That's 17 miles for one lap!

I got about 6 laps per tank of gas, and when gas costs $8-9/gallon it can surly add up.

Here is a shot of my wife an I in her RS4 (yes, her name is Hellena!)






And here is a shot from the last time I was there racing the Lotus





Great weather huh


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Old 12-08-2010, 11:16 AM   #242
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Hehehehe, that's awesome!
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:31 PM   #243
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Very nice pics!!!
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:29 PM   #244
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Wow, thanks for the pics, Erik!

I'd say its probably easier for a novice to turn good laptimes in the GTR, than it is for a novice to turn good laptimes in a car like the ZR1 or Viper ACR, and the like. But once you've learned how to dance on the limit, (around 10/10ths), then its advantage narrows considerably. IMVHO. Im not taking anything away from the brilliant Atessa awd system, its just a different approach, with computer aids helping to extract the performance potential out of the car, where track driving experience takes time to aquire, with lots of seat time. Same destination, different paths.

All good fun, anyway you look at it!
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Old 12-14-2010, 06:05 PM   #245
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Thanks Guys!

I posted a few more pics here if anyone is interested

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120026


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Originally Posted by Vic'sCamaro View Post
Wow, thanks for the pics, Erik!

I'd say its probably easier for a novice to turn good laptimes in the GTR, than it is for a novice to turn good laptimes in a car like the ZR1 or Viper ACR, and the like. But once you've learned how to dance on the limit, (around 10/10ths), then its advantage narrows considerably. IMVHO. Im not taking anything away from the brilliant Atessa awd system, its just a different approach, with computer aids helping to extract the performance potential out of the car, where track driving experience takes time to aquire, with lots of seat time. Same destination, different paths.

All good fun, anyway you look at it!

Very true my friend! I personally would take a ZR-1 any day over the GTR as I like to actually drive my cars, not ride along letting computers do everything
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Old 12-14-2010, 06:34 PM   #246
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(semi off topic) I *almost* feel bad for the challenger forums.. : ]
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