[GretchenGotGrowl]

Wow, AWD has become the new V6 vs V8, auto vs manual.

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[AlphaLTx]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

Wow, AWD has become the new V6 vs V8, auto vs manual.

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You're making 730rwtq+.
You, of all people, should value the traction that AWD could provide a STREET car on STREET tires.

Now, add to that equation the cold and wet that people have to deal with outside of YOUR southern climate, and you can see why there is a DEMAND for the OPTION of AWD in 2014.

C'mon, man. We were making more power than we could ever use in our street cars in the early 1990's. Traction was the problem then, and it's still the problem now.
There are no VHT treated highways in the real world and you can't drive around on slicks, especially in the wet and cold.

For my DAILY DRIVEN STREET CAR I'd rather have a 450hp Camaro/Corvette with AWD than a 700rwhp+ RWD car. Especially with the cold and wet roads I have to deal with.
I have seen the take rates when AWD is an option. I'm not alone, The numbers are high, and they are rising.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by AlphaLTx

You're making 730rwtq+.
You, of all people, should value the traction that AWD could provide a STREET car on STREET tires.

Now, add to that equation the cold and wet that people have to deal with outside of YOUR southern climate, and you can see why there is a DEMAND for the OPTION of AWD in 2014.

C'mon, man. We were making more power than we could ever use in our street cars in the early 1990's. Traction was the problem then, and it's still the problem now.
There are no VHT treated highways in the real world and you can't drive around on slicks, especially in the wet and cold.

For my DAILY DRIVEN STREET CAR I'd rather have a 450hp Camaro/Corvette with AWD than a 700rwhp+ RWD car. Especially with the cold and wet roads I have to deal with.
I have seen the take rates when AWD is an option. I'm not alone, The numbers are high, and they are rising.

First of all I used to live right outside Rochester, so NYC wouldn't be that big a deal to me. Second of all, I have a 4x4 truck so I don't have to worry about inclement weather. Finally, I didn't express an opinion about AWD one way or another; I commented on how contentious the topic has become.

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[AlphaLTx]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

First of all I used to live right outside Rochester, so NYC wouldn't be that big a deal to me. Second of all, I have a 4x4 truck so I don't have to worry about inclement weather. Finally, I didn't express an opinion about AWD one way or another; I commented on how contentious the topic has become.

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Well, I don't want to drive a piece of shit 4x4 for half the year.
Did the Supercharged Coupe & SUV 2-car combo for years.
I refuse to do it anymore.
I've been driving a G37x sedan through the winters and I will never go back to a shitty 4x4 again.

If I am adding another new car to my collection, I want to be able to drive it year round.
I wanted it to be a C7. But, GM failed to offer a modern drivetrain in the C7 (DCT +AWD), so they will not get my money this generation, and after buying new Corvettes since 1997, I may never buy another new Corvette again.
I am holding out hope that they will have the common sense to give Cadillac both a DCT and AWD in either the ATS-V or CTS-V.

If not, I'm hoping for AT LEAST the OPTION of AWD in a V8 Camaro. I'm even willing to accept the inferior A8 to a DCT, as long as the MSRP makes sense.

If not, I will finally do the unthinkable as a GM fan boy and replace my Corvette with a GTR, Porsche, AMG, or Audi S/RS.
I'm choosing to keep the faith that GM is capable of making intelligent decisions.
Fingers crossed.

[Angrybird 12]

It all adds up to cost benefit ratios. The cost of engineering and production of AWD compared to the number of potential buyers would probably be of no benefit to GM to produce. How many people would actually drive their Corvette or Camaro in bad weather even with AWD? I bet fewer than you would think.

[AlphaLTx]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

It all adds up to cost benefit ratios. The cost of engineering and production of AWD compared to the number of potential buyers would probably be of no benefit to GM to produce. How many people would actually drive their Corvette or Camaro in bad weather even with AWD? I bet fewer than you would think.

Current sale figures completely disagree with your guess.
The take rate of an AWD option on Camaro/Corvette would shock a lot of people.

An AWD Camaro would be a direct competitor to the G37x.
The current AWD ATS has already completed the AWD engineering. It would be completely foolish for GM not to offer in as an option for the Alpha Camaro.

[20Camaro11]

1. AWD adds weight...the Camaro needs more of that.
2. AWD adds $$$$ to the price of of the vehicle.
3. AWD adds $$$$ to the maintenance of the vehicle.
4. A properly equipped RWD vehicle with a sensible driver can perform adequately in most inclement situations.
5. I think GM is satisfied with with their sales performance in regards to "ignoring the targeted customers" ^insert sarcasm. The Camaro and Corvette have been doing very well in the showrooms from what I have read.
6. CAFE numbers certainly is a consideration that can't be overlooked.

Personally, I would never want an AWD or 4x4. It just adds to maintenance and reduces fuel mileage. I grew in a snow belt off Lake Erie and my family never had 4 wheel drive. We drove through some hideous amounts of snow and fared pretty well. Common sense and driving responsibly goes a long way.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by AlphaLTx

I beg to differ, and so do the sales numbers.
The take rate of an AWD option on Camaro/Corvette would shock a lot of people.

An AWD Camaro would be a direct competitor to the G37x.
Since the ATS is already offers AWD as an option, it would be completely foolish for GM not to offer in as an option for the Alpha Camaro.

Start a thread asking if people would pay a $4,000 additional price for AWD on the next gen Camaro, since that is the difference in price from a 2wd to AWD ATS.. I bet you would not get many takers.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by AlphaLTx

Current sale figures completely disagree with your guess.
The take rate of an AWD option on Camaro/Corvette would shock a lot of people.

An AWD Camaro would be a direct competitor to the G37x.
The current AWD ATS has already completed the AWD engineering. It would be completely foolish for GM not to offer in as an option for the Alpha Camaro.

To be honest your dreaming. If you would go back and read all the post here since 08, you would find the majority of folks here don't drive their car during the winter or in the rain. It has absolutely nothing to do with 2WD or AWD, they just put their cars on a pedestal because they don't want them dirty. They are all garage queens. The profit and demand just isn't there for a performance car with AWD.

[AlphaLTx]

It's a shame that the same stupid posts get regurgitated like vomit, year after year, on forum after forum.
You would think people would pull their heads out of their ass and educate themselves by now.
I guess not.

You anti-PERFORMANCE AWD people need to educate yourselves.
Your can start by googling:
G37x, BMW 335, AMG E63, Porsche Macan, 911 Turbo, Nissan GTR, Audi S4, Audi S6, Audi R8, Gallardo, Huracan, 2015 Q50 Eau Rougue, etc, etc, etc.

Educate yourselves on the specs, the performance, the facts and THEN come back and see me.

Bottom Line:
AWD should be an OPTION.
If you don't want it, don't order it.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by AlphaLTx

It's a shame that the same stupid posts get regurgitated like vomit, year after year, on forum after forum.
You would think people would pull their heads out of their ass and educate themselves by now.
I guess not.

You anti-PERFORMANCE AWD people need to educate yourselves.
Your can start by googling:
G37x, BMW 335, AMG E63, Porsche Macan, 911 Turbo, Nissan GTR, Audi S4, Audi S6, Audi R8, Gallardo, Huracan, 2015 Q50 Eau Rougue, etc, etc, etc.

Educate yourselves on the specs, the performance, the facts and THEN come back and see me.

Bottom Line:
AWD should be an OPTION.
If you don't want it, don't order it.

Ohhhh

[AlphaLTx]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Start a thread asking if people would pay a $4,000 additional price for AWD on the next gen Camaro, since that is the difference in price from a 2wd to AWD ATS.. I bet you would not get many takers.

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Ohhhh.... now you have really gone and done it.

You are a prime example of the misinformation spread by the uneducated.

The price difference for the AWD model is $1,880 and NOT $4,000.
Plus, that $1,880 included additional content, so the AWD is actually LESS than the $1,880.

Last I checked, people are paying a lot more than $1,880 for other options on current Camaros.
Spending $1,880 is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying an additional 4x4 vehicle and all the added expenses of maintaining and additional car.
Plus, why would I drive a piece of shit 4x4 beater for half the year when I could just ADD a $1,880 option to the $30k++++ car I just bought?

Just another example of how uneducated the anti-AWD crowd is.

[20Camaro11]

Changing the subject sort of. I would drive an AWD Camaro if it involved a 400+hp motor and a hybrid drivetrain driving the front wheels increasing my gas mileage over 30MPG.

[31B]

Originally Posted by AlphaLTx

You are a prime example of the misinformation spread by the uneducated.

The price difference for the AWD model is $1,880 and NOT $4,000.
Plus, that $1,880 included additional content, so the AWD is actually LESS than the $1,880.

Last I checked, people are paying a lot more than $1,880 for other options on current Camaros.
Spending $1,880 is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying an additional 4x4 vehicle and all the added expenses of maintaining and additional car.
Plus, why would I drive a piece of shit 4x4 beater for half the year when I could just ADD a $1,880 option to the $30k++++ car I just bought?

Just another example of how uneducated the anti-AWD crowd is.

Please keep it cordial. I happen to think angrybird is one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people in Camaro5.