MotorTrend Pits the ZL1 vs GT500 on the Street, Dragstrip, and Racetrack

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by hognutz

so as those numbers decline lap by lap that is reality still? I was hoping the 2013 would not have these issues.

Yes it is, and it could be a consideration for some - no doubt about it.

as you oil temps rise, brakes fade, etc that is better on the track?

Of course not. How do we qualify that in an objective manner? Do we have an majority of sources reporting such, or just one here and there?

And who in their right mind is going to "track" either of these cars without changing the brake fluid, pads, tires, etc? EITHER ONE. Sure, to take it out every now again...both could probably do that, and the ZL1 would probably be more confidence inspiring - little doubt about that.

reality does not car about time in a magazine. when you are coming into a corner you have good brake pedal or you don't.

No arguement there.

that is the differnt between the internet and reality. you keyboard never has brake fade, oil temp, water temp, etc.

Neither does yours.

BTW....I do tend to live in reality. The internet is for fun and information. I can separate reality from the internet. Most folks probably can too.

if I want a car for a track day I like the car that actaully will do better that day. does not have to be the fastest.

Agreed - which is why I, personally, would not pick either one as a track car. In or below this price range, I'd get a Boss (and consider the 1LE when it does come out). If I wanted to spend the coin, I'd get a Z06 and call it a day - be it road course, drag strip, or cruising.

of all the amercian cars tested the ZL1 is one of the few that does not seem to exibit bad behaviors during a review on the track. with the exeption of Z06 Z07, Zr1 but they usually get reviewed as being harsh at the limit and they are.

You can make that arguement, but if you read the MT comments on the ZL1, it wasn't immune to bad behavior completely (understeer without the nannies), though I agree that the ZL1 would be considered the better road course car by most. For everything else...from my perspective based on my biases and wants....different story.

Don't ask why I'm argueing this....its the internet..

To each their own.

[69NMYSS]

Originally Posted by Betiwin

Haha no just think they are both amazing cars. I think the Z just needs more speed. Being left at every stop light would get old. Outside looks of the Z and road manners/handling are a 10/10 I think.

Trust me, I hate seeing the ZL1 getting destroyed at the strip by the GT500, so I have to lean on the track performance and all around driveability of the ZL1

[adam4356]

I enjoyed the MT review and data the most. Cash in hand i would walk away with the ZL1.

[C5RocksC5]

Originally Posted by 69NMYSS

Trust me, I hate seeing the ZL1 getting destroyed at the strip by the GT500, so I have to lean on the track performance and all around driveability of the ZL1

it's more fun driving a car more than 12 seconds anyway. BTW, I love your white ZL1.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

Ok. For the sake of discussion, and because its very slow here today, I combined all the acceleration stuff (and top speed) into "acceleration", and came up with this (just as useless, but fun) little matrix. It shows "wins" for each category based on the 4 magazine's results:

Final results = 3-1-1

I think your "Matrix" is more useful than the previously mentioned chart.

However, are you giving the GT500 the nod in the Motor Trend road course test? The Motor Trend review called its road course test a tie, even the the GT500 had the faster single lap because the GT500 couldn't sustain its lap time due to brake fade, while the ZL1 did.

Given the Motor Trend road course tie, I would characterize the final results as 2-1-2, essentially within the margin of error.

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

Ok. For the sake of discussion, and because its very slow here today, I combined all the acceleration stuff (and top speed) into "acceleration", and came up with this (just as useless, but fun) little matrix. It shows "wins" for each category based on the 4 magazine's results:

Don't forget that the cost advantage goes to the zl1 for all 4 reviews. So you can chalk that down on a column somewhere.

Most if not all of the mag reviewers have chosen the zl1 as the overall winner. So remember to also put that in a spread sheet.

And I think the motor trend review is an excellent example of why they chose the zl1. For every day driving they preferred the zl1, at the drag strip the gt500 wins, on the road track they look at it two ways: the gt500 got the fastest single lap, but the zl1 won after 3 laps. The zl1 was more consistent and stable. This and the every day driving caused them to make their final decision.

But they also talk about well-controlled body motions, planted suspension, and unshakable confidence. Some of these things are much harder to quantify and place in a spread sheet. (It could be done but it would require much more extensive data acquisition, analysis and testing.)

[69NMYSS]

Originally Posted by pdari

it's more fun driving a car more than 12 seconds anyway. BTW, I love your white ZL1.

Thank you

I have to agree 100%. I went to Buttonwillow Raceway last Friday and spent the day on the track and have never had more fun in my life. The dragstrip has nothing on the roadcourse in terms of pure fun.

[rez333]

You guys aren't getting it.

It's not about comfort.

It's not about magnetic suspension.

It's not about LRA vs IRS.

It's not about power.

It's all about brakes. The GT500 lost because of brakes.

Let's talk about that.

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

I think your "Matrix" is more useful than the previously mentioned chart.

However, are you giving the GT500 the nod in the Motor Trend road course test? The Motor Trend review called its road course test a tie, even the the GT500 had the faster single lap because the GT500 couldn't sustain its lap time due to brake fade, while the ZL1 did.

Given the Motor Trend road course tie, I would characterize the final results as 2-1-2, essentially within the margin of error.

Yes, I was giving it to the GT500. I can see your point...could go either way.

Originally Posted by oortcloud

Don't forget that the cost advantage goes to the zl1 for all 4 reviews. So you can chalk that down on a column somewhere.

Ok. Will go with "as tested" vice base price, so will chalk that win up to the ZL1

Most if not all of the mag reviewers have chosen the zl1 as the overall winner. So remember to also put that in a spread sheet.

Eh, if you wish. That is personal preference vice hard objective data, but ok.

If we did just that, we'd end up with 3-3-1. That's probably a rather reasonable outcome. However, if I'm going to add those two that you want, I suppose I could go ahead and put MPG back in as a stat, and perhaps have top speed separate from "Acceleration".

In the end, we could go on and on, twisting and spinning the statistics in whichever way it is that best promotes our own choice.

And I think the motor trend review is an excellent example of why they chose the zl1. For every day driving they preferred the zl1, at the drag strip the gt500 wins, on the road track they look at it two ways: the gt500 got the fastest single lap, but the zl1 won after 3 laps. The zl1 was more consistent and stable. This and the every day driving caused them to make their final decision.

No issues with that. At the end of the day, we all have to make our own choice based on our own biases, needs, wants, and abilities to acquire.

But they also talk about well-controlled body motions, planted suspension, and unshakable confidence. Some of these things are much harder to quantify and place in a spread sheet. (It could be done but it would require much more extensive data acquisition, analysis and testing.)

Yup. To counter, there are some that actually prefer a bit more...I don't know..."on the edge" feel from a car? They are performance cars....

To each their own. And I'm glad we can debate/argue/discuss this without getting our collective panties (or underwear) in a wad.... or getting banned....

[adamgl]

Originally Posted by Rice Killer

I'd prefer the car that is more comfortable where it will spend more than 99% of it's time for most, the street. And still have a blast at the drag strip or road course.

If I wanted a straight line car I'd build a kickass drag car for less than a 1/3 of the money and smoke both of them at the track. Just sayin..

Didn't buy the car to win trophies, I bought the car to have fun while maintaining comfort where it matters most.

Exactly, It wouldn't take much more in my 4th gen Z28 to smoke 500 or ZL1 in a straight line. But the ZL1 is so great b/c it can do everything very well.

[adamgl]

I want to see base GT500 vs upgraded shocks / track pack options. See how much difference there is.

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

There is no need for a rebuttal from Chevrolet as most reviews so far have concluded that the ZL1 is the better overall vehicle.

On the contrary, I feel that there is a lot of opportunity for Chevy to improve. The ford has shown that it is more than a match for the ZL1 in many of the performance categories and, as I said a few times earlier, the GT500 was no slouch on the road course.

Its one thing to have a preference, but how does that preference translate on a track or a road course? That's the question that Chevrolet needs to answer.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by lbls1

On the contrary, I feel that there is a lot of opportunity for Chevy to improve. The ford has shown that it is more than a match for the ZL1 in many of the performance categories and, as I said a few times earlier, the GT500 was no slouch on the road course.

Its one thing to have a preference, but how does that preference translate on a track or a road course? That's the question that Chevrolet needs to answer.

There's difference between rebutting and improving. Certainly, there is room for improvement with the ZL1, but I don't think any "rebuttal" to the GT500 is necessary, as most reviews so far conclude that the ZL1 is the better vehicle.

[kbar4782]

Amen!!