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Old 05-21-2018, 01:01 PM   #5279
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Cold starts are hard on an engine. All the oil has drained to the pan, the oil is thicker because its cold, and parts don't fit quite right.

But warm starts do almost nothing and the wear caused by restarting the engine is offset by the wear caused by not running the engine for a few seconds. And if you're sitting for 30 seconds or more, you're causing less wear by turning it off & restarting it than by just leaving it running.
That makes sense...but still, the starter itself has to work, what 1000% more often?....10,000% more often? Are starters nowadays that much more heavy duty?....The technology was hard enough to keep a car running...now they can't wait to shut it off and re-start it...lol...


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When I was researching if it could be deactivated on my dad’s new Envision, it said it wouldn’t shut off if the A/C was on. Thinking I found a trick to bypass it since they decided to not allow owners to actually decide how their vehicle should work after paying for it and all, I tried it. Nope. Even with the A/C on it still shut off. Thud. Then the vibration starting up to the next light.
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I have a 17 Malibu, 1.5L with start stop and I do not like it. The starter noise drives me nuts, and the little thud when it starts again. I had a 2007 Saturn Vue with different version of start stop and it was much better. I loved the Vue, but the battery replacement was going to kill me. I changed the batteries twice while it was still under warranty so I decided to sell the car before It was on my dime.

The only vehicle I ever used with start-stop was a gas powered golf cart...lol...great idea and worked good on that....Staying away from it for as long as possible in regular car...

My neighbor has a new Traverse, and they hate the start stop. They mentioned it is worse when running the A/C...It will stop and start several times at a light just to keep the A/C running....The way they "defeat it" is putting the trans in neutral just before coming to a complete stop. Not fun...lol...


At a crowded red light I always hear several cars starting up when it's time to go...I still look around to see who's car may not move from being "stalled out"....lol...Oh well, technology marches on.....
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:27 PM   #5280
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Everyone I know who has a car with start/stop absolutely despises it. Granted that sample size is only 2 people they are simply not fans of it.
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it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 05-21-2018, 05:52 PM   #5281
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I’ve driven Mercedes, Audi and BMW diesels with stop/start as company cars in Germany for years. It doesn’t bother me there but I wouldn’t want it for my own car. Starting the engine is when most wear happens so how does this affect it?

FYI- I’ve noticed that slightly backing off the brakes just before it comes to a stop tricks it into continuing to run. The fuel economy is excellent too.
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Old 05-21-2018, 06:24 PM   #5282
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I’ve driven Mercedes, Audi and BMW diesels with stop/start as company cars in Germany for years. It doesn’t bother me there but I wouldn’t want it for my own car. Starting the engine is when most wear happens so how does this affect it?

FYI- I’ve noticed that slightly backing off the brakes just before it comes to a stop tricks it into continuing to run. The fuel economy is excellent too.
The wear to the engine should be minimal considering it is warmed up and the oil hasn't drained back into the sump. Now the starter.....
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Old 05-21-2018, 06:24 PM   #5283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotlap View Post
Starting the engine is when most wear happens so how does this affect it?
Since I don't feel like re-typing my post from earlier today:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Cold starts are hard on an engine. All the oil has drained to the pan, the oil is thicker because its cold, and parts don't fit quite right.

But warm starts do almost nothing and the wear caused by restarting the engine is offset by the wear caused by not running the engine for a few seconds. And if you're sitting for 30 seconds or more, you're causing less wear by turning it off & restarting it than by just leaving it running.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:06 PM   #5284
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Since I don't feel like re-typing my post from earlier today:
Thank you for repeating the info. That makes sense.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:46 PM   #5285
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So when a solenoid that tells it start back up when you press the gas quits it’ll just sit there? Awesome in the left lane in busy traffic.

Again, more useless crap to break.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:19 PM   #5286
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I'll be different and say I love the start/stop in my wife's '17 Cruze. It doesn't bother me one bit, and knowing I'm not burning gas sitting at a light is a bonus.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:34 PM   #5287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
That makes sense...but still, the starter itself has to work, what 1000% more often?....10,000% more often? Are starters nowadays that much more heavy duty?....The technology was hard enough to keep a car running...now they can't wait to shut it off and re-start it...lol...
I wouldn’t say more heavy duty....I would say purpose designed starter motors. They are validated for millions of restart cycles.






Quote:
...

My neighbor has a new Traverse, and they hate the start stop. They mentioned it is worse when running the A/C...It will stop and start several times at a light just to keep the A/C running....The way they "defeat it" is putting the trans in neutral just before coming to a complete stop. Not fun...lol...
If the part in bold is true, they need to go straight back to the dealer, do not pass go. Stop Start systems are typically designed so that once the car is re-started, it will not auto-stop again until the vehicle has reached at least 8 mph and then come to another complete stop. And then only based on the state of charge of the battery. If they are getting the first stop with the AC running, the state of charge will be so low that chances of getting a 2nd stop within a few minutes, even if they do exceed 8 mph, are about as slim as having a Yeti offer to squeegee your window while you are stopped at the light. Something must be broken.


Quote:
At a crowded red light I always hear several cars starting up when it's time to go...I still look around to see who's car may not move from being "stalled out"....lol...Oh well, technology marches on.....
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:38 PM   #5288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerTM View Post
I have a 17 Malibu, 1.5L with start stop and I do not like it. The starter noise drives me nuts, and the little thud when it starts again. I had a 2007 Saturn Vue with different version of start stop and it was much better. I loved the Vue, but the battery replacement was going to kill me. I changed the batteries twice while it was still under warranty so I decided to sell the car before It was on my dime.
I’m pretty certain that what you had was a Saturn Vue Greenline, which is not a Stop Start, but is actually a Belt Alternator Starter (BAS) mild hybrid system. The Alternator and Starter are integrated into one unit that is powered by the hybrid battery. That is the battery you were no doubt trying to not replace. It is very similar to the first Honda Civic hybrids, except for on the Honda, the hybrid motor was placed on the back of the engine, (Flywheel Alternator Starter or FAS) not on the accessory drive like a BAS.
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Last edited by Martinjlm; 05-21-2018 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:44 PM   #5289
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
If the part in bold is true, they need to go straight back to the dealer, do not pass go. Stop Start systems are typically designed so that once the car is re-started, it will not auto-stop again until the vehicle has reached at least 8 mph and then come to another complete stop. And then only based on the state of charge of the battery. If they are getting the first stop with the AC running, the state of charge will be so low that chances of getting a 2nd stop within a few minutes, even if they do exceed 8 mph, are about as slim as having a Yeti offer to squeegee your window while you are stopped at the light. Something must be broken.
Thanks for the info....I'll discuss it with him when I see him, and pass your info along....
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:03 PM   #5290
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I'm not saying I love the start stop in our 18 Terrain, but I don't really hate it either. It has it's merits, and if you do happen to sit somewhere a while, it does save on fuel. There are also ways around it that you quickly pick up on when you drive with it. Of course, there are times it can seem a tad annoying.

I did a fair amount of research on it before we bought, and pretty easy to see just in these last several posts that there is lots of misconceptions and just plain wrong assumptions.

The vehicle has to pass several prevalidations before it will deploy start stop(for instance, it will not deploy if it is hot out and the AC ist under heavy load or if the engine is not warmed up enough) ..and yes a heavy duty starter is used.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:19 PM   #5291
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Just wondering, if start/stop is all that benign, saves gas, mechanically reliable, and misunderstood, etc., why do a lot of cars have a switch giving the owner the option to turn it off?

My guess is a lot of buyers would avoid start/stop like the plague if they had to live with it full time.
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:44 AM   #5292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
Just wondering, if start/stop is all that benign, saves gas, mechanically reliable, and misunderstood, etc., why do a lot of cars have a switch giving the owner the option to turn it off?

My guess is a lot of buyers would avoid start/stop like the plague if they had to live with it full time.
Because a button to disable it is easier than educating the masses
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