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Old 04-04-2011, 08:31 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaylorSS View Post
I'm probably wrong here but assuming pump is is based off rpms, then wouldn't it make that the stock pump is meant to accelerate at the max rev and that by exceeding it you are in fact stressing the pump beyond factory specs. Think about tires. If you accelerate an reasonable pace to 60 mph, the tires don't lose traction. If you hammer it, you smoke the tires while accelerating to 60. 60 mph is a normal operating speed for the tires but the application of the additional force needed caused the tires to smoke(traction fail). The same logic applies on the pump just because you are operating within the factory rpm limits it does not mean you are not stressing the part. So extra hp does add extra stress to pump even if you are not redlining it.
That's really stretching for possible theories.

Another theory is - there is a bulletin for defective pressure relief valves that stick on LS3 engines.

Wonder which would be more likely?

The issue here is a broad brush stroke of completely voiding a warranty for performance modifications. Some, including the FTC, would say - can't do that - factory defects not caused by the modifications are still covered.

If it were me, I'd ask for a diagnosis of what caused the failure. Maybe they do find something in the modification that damaged the pump, or maybe they find the relief valve stuck due to a factory defect - won't know until it is diagnosed.

Then if it does turn out to be diagnosed as a defect not caused by the modifications - file for BBB arbitration.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:59 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
That's really stretching for possible theories.

Another theory is - there is a bulletin for defective pressure relief valves that stick on LS3 engines.

Wonder which would be more likely?

The issue here is a broad brush stroke of completely voiding a warranty for performance modifications. Some, including the FTC, would say - can't do that - factory defects not caused by the modifications are still covered.

If it were me, I'd ask for a diagnosis of what caused the failure. Maybe they do find something in the modification that damaged the pump, or maybe they find the relief valve stuck due to a factory defect - won't know until it is diagnosed.

Then if it does turn out to be diagnosed as a defect not caused by the modifications - file for BBB arbitration.
The issue here is not whether a part "might" be defective...the issue here is that the OP voided their warranty KNOWINGLY by tuning their car...
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:14 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by GaryTucker View Post
The issue here is not whether a part "might" be defective...the issue here is that the OP voided their warranty KNOWINGLY by tuning their car...
Correct. So it doesn't matter that the part "might" or "could" be defective. Tye second he tuned his car he lost his warranty.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:27 AM   #186
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Who is the MFG of the OEM oil pump in question?
Anyone know?
Reason I ask is I am personal friends with the owner of Melling oil pumps.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:48 AM   #187
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My thoughts are that they would have replaced the pump and looked the other way if not for the cam and obvious "I have been IN the motor" aspect.

I'm thinking headers and a tune and CAI may have been OK/overlooked in this specific instance.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:08 AM   #188
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Some owners want to get rid of their car if the engine has to be broken down by the dealer or is in an accident. Guess they think it's not the same anymore. It may be that the dealer sees it the same way. I can understand their position. The engine was torn down and they don't know what has been done right or wrong. What if there is a problem when they tear it down? Who's at fault? Would you want it back on a tow truck? They did replace the oil pump. I would put myself in their shoes. Just some things to think about. You might need a lawyer to fight two battle.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:10 PM   #189
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Everytime I read this thread, I start laughing at some of these responses....

Hey, there's a TSB on those tires for that Explorer, but because you put different rims on it, we're going to waive your warranty...

The point here, regardless of the mods the person did to the motor, is that there was a service bulletin for that particular part in question. They should have done a test on that part, and that part only.

The guy is guilty of modding his car, he's admitted to it, and he doesn't care about paying for it. What he's pissed about, and I agree with, is that GM didn't even bother to look and see if the part in question, which is a known problem, failed.

Forget the modifications to his motor for 2 seconds. If he didn't have them, they'd replace it. That's the point here.....he could have a failed oil pump (from factory). Regardless of warranty, GM should replace said failed part. I said it earlier in this thread and I'll say it again. Chrysler had to the very same thing for people who had already been out of warranty, voided warranty, or still under warranty for the lower ball joints on the 2nd gen Dakotas/1st gen Durangos...
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:38 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryTucker View Post
The issue here is not whether a part "might" be defective...the issue here is that the OP voided their warranty KNOWINGLY by tuning their car...
Sorry...but the issue is that a part might be defective. A part that was unaffected by the mods I performed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsReject97 View Post
Everytime I read this thread, I start laughing at some of these responses....

Hey, there's a TSB on those tires for that Explorer, but because you put different rims on it, we're going to waive your warranty...

The point here, regardless of the mods the person did to the motor, is that there was a service bulletin for that particular part in question. They should have done a test on that part, and that part only.

The guy is guilty of modding his car, he's admitted to it, and he doesn't care about paying for it. What he's pissed about, and I agree with, is that GM didn't even bother to look and see if the part in question, which is a known problem, failed. .
THANK YOU for actually listening...well, not 'listening' so much as it is comprehending what you're reading.


It's also worth noting that last winter I had a 'check engine' code...yet you'll find NO RECORD of me ever visiting the dealer...because I didn't. There were no tech notes or bulletins about a CEL issue...so I assumed it was related to my mods somehow and I dealt with it completely on my own. I'm not out for 'free' repairs or to 'get one over on GM'.

There is NO DOUBT that if I could get a 'do over'...I would absolutely mod the car again. The ONLY thing I would do different is replace the oil pump while the timing cover was already off and save myself some time, $, and, most importantly, mitigate the risk of serious damage to the motor.
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Old 04-05-2011, 07:56 AM   #191
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Sorry...but the issue is that a part might be defective. A part that was unaffected by the mods I performed.
I feel bad as it seems you have to keep explaining yourself on this forum over and over to the same question.

I really wanted to point this one sticking point out again because it seems to have been glossed over and no one has questioned it (aside from me in an earlier post). The oil pump is driven by the cam and timing chain, both of which you had replaced. Whether or not they affect the operation vs stock is irrelevant. The specific parts of the engine that drive the oil pump were modified. That will be the beginning and end of their argument, because if you look at the specific terms of the warranty its done.

So you keep saying the part was unaffected when in fact it was directly affected. Its not like they are denying you a repair on a defective catalytic converter for changing out your air filter.

As I said I wish you luck, but I feel this is the answer you're gonna get, and I just hope you don't waste any money getting it.
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:16 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by f5journal View Post
My thoughts are that they would have replaced the pump and looked the other way if not for the cam and obvious "I have been IN the motor" aspect.

I'm thinking headers and a tune and CAI may have been OK/overlooked in this specific instance.
Wrong....
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:21 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsReject97 View Post
Everytime I read this thread, I start laughing at some of these responses....

Hey, there's a TSB on those tires for that Explorer, but because you put different rims on it, we're going to waive your warranty...

The point here, regardless of the mods the person did to the motor, is that there was a service bulletin for that particular part in question. They should have done a test on that part, and that part only.

The guy is guilty of modding his car, he's admitted to it, and he doesn't care about paying for it. What he's pissed about, and I agree with, is that GM didn't even bother to look and see if the part in question, which is a known problem, failed.

Forget the modifications to his motor for 2 seconds. If he didn't have them, they'd replace it. That's the point here.....he could have a failed oil pump (from factory). Regardless of warranty, GM should replace said failed part. I said it earlier in this thread and I'll say it again. Chrysler had to the very same thing for people who had already been out of warranty, voided warranty, or still under warranty for the lower ball joints on the 2nd gen Dakotas/1st gen Durangos...
Bingo!.............I can here GM now....oh not another one...oh wait look he has a tune...screw this guy.........Next?
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:07 AM   #194
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Sorry bro. That really sucks!

PS......My day has sucked too!

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WOW thats an excellent parallel park in the woods

Sorry man first thing I thought.

Hope it works out for your guys both.
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:37 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Leader View Post
The oil pump is driven by the cam and timing chain, both of which you had replaced. Whether or not they affect the operation vs stock is irrelevant. The specific parts of the engine that drive the oil pump were modified. That will be the beginning and end of their argument, because if you look at the specific terms of the warranty its done.

So you keep saying the part was unaffected when in fact it was directly affected. Its not like they are denying you a repair on a defective catalytic converter for changing out your air filter.

Working in and around the automotive industry for a good part of my career I agree with these statements. This will more than likely be the ground the dealership stands on. Maybe they decide to "goodwill"(not warranty, but sort of) the part to help out.

The problem is, "oh the dealer refuses to fix my pump, they are the bad guys"

Dealerships get reimbursed by the manufacturers for the warranty work that they do. Very frequently the manufacturer will request that the dealership send them the warrantied part (in this case an oil pump) with all of the documented paperwork of that repair. If the manufacturer finds fault with ANYTHING noted in said document, then the dealership gets a chargeback (ie: no money from MFG) AND they will be watched more closely in future warranty repairs.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:31 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Rogue Leader View Post
I feel bad as it seems you have to keep explaining yourself on this forum over and over to the same question.

I really wanted to point this one sticking point out again because it seems to have been glossed over and no one has questioned it (aside from me in an earlier post). The oil pump is driven by the cam and timing chain, both of which you had replaced. Whether or not they affect the operation vs stock is irrelevant. The specific parts of the engine that drive the oil pump were modified. That will be the beginning and end of their argument, because if you look at the specific terms of the warranty its done.

So you keep saying the part was unaffected when in fact it was directly affected. Its not like they are denying you a repair on a defective catalytic converter for changing out your air filter.

As I said I wish you luck, but I feel this is the answer you're gonna get, and I just hope you don't waste any money getting it.

This is my sticking point on the whole argument too...Everything done is DIRECTLY related to the oil pump...
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