Ford Owes the Government $5.9 Billion!

[MikeSVX]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

GM and Chrysler owe the tax payer a hell of a lot.

Actually, they've paid back everything they were required to pay back. The rest was either grants or taken as stock options. Admittedly, the money they didn't have to pay back was quite considerable. Ford hasn't even repaying there loans.

[8cd03gro]

True, but Ford is both obligated and able to repay these loans. The equity in GM owned by the govt will never be valuable enough to recover much of the TARP funds used to prop up GM. This action has proven to be stabilizing, at least in the short term, but it is an unprecedented circumstance while acting as a lender of last resort is a typical action of a central banking system. Personally I support the bailout, but some of the details of the restructuring do bother me.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by MikeSVX

Actually, they've paid back everything they were required to pay back. The rest was either grants or taken as stock options. Admittedly, the money they didn't have to pay back was quite considerable. Ford hasn't even repaying there loans.

Should be noted they paid back the gov with other taxpayer money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/bu...EB671DD2B8C76E

[Sax1031]

Trust me the best bet in this thread is to lock it or forget it.

This is not a discussion you want to have, the ford vs gm debate in reference to the taxpayer.

Best to leave it at what it is.

[KXRM]

Originally Posted by imstillhere

thread backfire

^ This. Blue Maro Demon, we get it, you think GM is awesome and Ford is crap. It's cool. Most of us just don't care. There are more important things to do with life than trumpeting for a company.

Business is business and any business taking advantage of a loan program to help improve the efficiency of their vehicles is just trying to stay innovative. I would never fault any automaker for doing that. I do have severe issues with the way that the government handled the bailout. A lot of other people have issue with the moral hazard of a government allowing a company to make such terrible decisions as to drive their company under and to, in turn, prop it up.

If this is the only bailout I ever see, then it's ok, I just don't want this to be a slippery slope to a government that supports an incumbent and kills innovation in the process all to "save" America from the sting of such terrible decision making and behavior that we saw from GM and Chrysler. On a personal note it would have served Ford right to experience the same pains. They were no better for a LONG time.

At any rate, the US has been handing out loans and grants to people for years to give them incentives to do things they would like to see (like get an education, cleanup the environment and build infrastructure). This kind of behavior is not new nor is it nearly as controversial as what we saw in '09.

If you and others can't see the difference then nothing I can do or say will open your eyes.

BTW right now TARP has $25 Billion invested in GM right now. When the share price gets around or above $50 for GM stock then the US government can start getting the money back out and be ahead. So to say GM doesn't owe anything is a little disingenuous.

[Berean]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Trust me the best bet in this thread is to lock it or forget it.

This is not a discussion you want to have, the ford vs gm debate in reference to the taxpayer.

Best to leave it at what it is.

[motorhead]

I don't know what the big deal is. The gov't is one of the largest banks in the world. They loan a lot to more groups than just car companies. Oh, and many of them end up not paying them back. Don't blame ford or gm. Blame your government for doing it. And another thing, there is a huge difference between what ford got and what gm and Chrysler got and we will never see the billions that they still owe. The government never intended to see it either. They knew it would win them union and corporate votes. That's why they didn't.

[C5RocksC5]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

It doesnt affect me im just posting this is the General Auto board which means you can talk about anything having to do with ANY automaker which I am doing. I'm just posting some auto news that hasnt been posted here yet thats all no need to take it personal.

it is all you mostly do in this board is bash Ford and other automakers...but Ford especially as if Ford stole your lunch money or something. Get over it. So Ford or GM or whatever makes or lose money...do you own stocks in any of these companies that you act like you do?

[WheelmanSS]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

It doesnt affect me im just posting this is the General Auto board which means you can talk about anything having to do with ANY automaker which I am doing. I'm just posting some auto news that hasnt been posted here yet thats all no need to take it personal.

You're posting a story that you clearly don't understand and are trying to spin it in a very uninformed and uneducated manner.

[NASTY99Z28]

As much as I like GM I feel they should be held accountable for every dollar they took not just part of it period. Also if I remember correctly I read that ford was only a few months away from also filing for bankruptcy so for the guys that feel ford wasnt "helped" your wrong they got that money to "help" a struggling business produce ev's to "help" them from also going bankrupt. Not ford bashing or GM riding just pointing out that all of the big 3 where falling hard it just so happened the government stepped in just in time for Ford's sake.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

GM and Chrysler owe the tax payer a hell of a lot.

Actually Chrysler already paid their loans off.......

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Stew

Actually Chrysler already paid their loans off.......

Honestly wasn't sure about that.

Did they do it with TARP, aka taxpayer money, like GM did?

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Honestly wasn't sure about that.

Did they do it with TARP, aka taxpayer money, like GM did?

Nope, I believe they refinanced other non government related loans which got the government paid back and saved them a fortune in interest.

[Sax1031]

hell of a lot of respect for Chrysler.