HP... when is enough, enough?

[SSE 4 2SS]

It's fun to mod a car for more horsepower, until you reach a point that it's no longer fun to maintain... it becomes a chore...

My car for example, at 800 rwhp, was still fun and comfortable to drive... it had A/C (south Texas) and I was still able to hop in it and cruise around, go to gatherings etc...

Then we went to 1100 rwhp. Still had the comforts, but fuel selection and spark plug change intervals became an issue. Fuel mileage suffered... and traction was non existent on street tires... we progressed from there to 1400 rwhp, which required new external fueling capabilities, (external fuel pumps rather than in the tank pumps) as well as substantial care and consideration taken just to start and operate the car... additional thought had to be given into where and how to get the car inspected.

From there we bumped it 300 more rwhp with nitrous... which caused traction issues even on the track with specific tires.

We changed the entire power plant and are now conservatively at 2000 rwhp... the motor is mounted with motor plates, the trans is solid mounted, the suspension is stiff and you could probably feel a paper clip if you drove over one.. I no longer have A/C, I have a radiant heater where the back seat used to be (dry sump tank) the dry sump hoses run along the floor board on the passenger side, there is a full 10 point roll cage... starting the car can take several minutes... fuel is C-16 only at ~15 dollars a gallon. O2 sensors are frequently changed, spark plugs very often...

It's hot, it's loud, it's rough, it's not comfortable... but, it's omg fast... it makes me smile, maintenace/operations in a given year if nothing goes wrong is still in the thousands per year... A ~100 ish dollar O2 sensor will cost me 20 k plus and I'll not be able to run the car for about 18 months before it's all said and done...

So... the trade off in the quest for more power is an honest question of how much are you willing to sacrifice for power... no one can build you a car guaranteed not to break.. fuel cost go up with many power upgrades... mpg or octane requirements either one can drive this... the comfort level goes down in many cases... After certain levels, there are sacrifices that have to be made... the honest question is what are your goals and what are you honestly willing to give up with each power level increase... my goals have my car interior stripped, one seat, no A/C, etc... it takes several minutes just to safely fire it up and monitor everything... it is what most people would not consider fun to drive or operate... but it's achieving my goals... So, decide what you can live with and go from there, baring in mind the goal of the car and your desires... I can't and won't ever judge people's desires for a number or goal. That's personal... is it for bragging rights, for a statable goal, or just because...

[tylerio]

My Z/28 has 500 RWHP (Mustang Dyno). I have the wickerbill so the extra HP is appreciated on the straights. I figure the drag of the wickerbill on the straights is more than offset by better grip on sweeping corners.

So, I've been very happy with Z's performance on the track. A few cars can still get me on the straight, but not that many.

[shibbs]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

.....now conservatively at 2000 rwhp....

I mean, I know I said not enough until I'm terrified..... I didn't just mean terrified to DRIVE it, that also means terrified to MAINTAIN it. lol

[JUSTIFIED]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

It's fun to mod a car for more horsepower, until you reach a point that it's no longer fun to maintain... it becomes a chore...

My car for example, at 800 rwhp, was still fun and comfortable to drive... it had A/C (south Texas) and I was still able to hop in it and cruise around, go to gatherings etc...

Then we went to 1100 rwhp. Still had the comforts, but fuel selection and spark plug change intervals became an issue. Fuel mileage suffered... and traction was non existent on street tires... we progressed from there to 1400 rwhp, which required new external fueling capabilities, (external fuel pumps rather than in the tank pumps) as well as substantial care and consideration taken just to start and operate the car... additional thought had to be given into where and how to get the car inspected.

From there we bumped it 300 more rwhp with nitrous... which caused traction issues even on the track with specific tires.

We changed the entire power plant and are now conservatively at 2000 rwhp... the motor is mounted with motor plates, the trans is solid mounted, the suspension is stiff and you could probably feel a paper clip if you drove over one.. I no longer have A/C, I have a radiant heater where the back seat used to be (dry sump tank) the dry sump hoses run along the floor board on the passenger side, there is a full 10 point roll cage... starting the car can take several minutes... fuel is C-16 only at ~15 dollars a gallon. O2 sensors are frequently changed, spark plugs very often...

It's hot, it's loud, it's rough, it's not comfortable... but, it's omg fast... it makes me smile, maintenace/operations in a given year if nothing goes wrong is still in the thousands per year... A ~100 ish dollar O2 sensor will cost me 20 k plus and I'll not be able to run the car for about 18 months before it's all said and done...

So... the trade off in the quest for more power is an honest question of how much are you willing to sacrifice for power... no one can build you a car guaranteed not to break.. fuel cost go up with many power upgrades... mpg or octane requirements either one can drive this... the comfort level goes down in many cases... After certain levels, there are sacrifices that have to be made... the honest question is what are your goals and what are you honestly willing to give up with each power level increase... my goals have my car interior stripped, one seat, no A/C, etc... it takes several minutes just to safely fire it up and monitor everything... it is what most people would not consider fun to drive or operate... but it's achieving my goals... So, decide what you can live with and go from there, baring in mind the goal of the car and your desires... I can't and won't ever judge people's desires for a number or goal. That's personal... is it for bragging rights, for a statable goal, or just because...

Interesting insight. That is far beyond what I could afford and would far exceed my driving capabilities. A man has to know his limits. :-) Mind sharing video of your car?

[Supercup]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

So... the trade off in the quest for more power is an honest question of how much are you willing to sacrifice for power... the honest question is what are your goals and what are you honestly willing to give up with each power level increase... .

And this is the crux of the matter - what are you willing to give up to have your desired level of power? Once you answer that questions you can set goals and go for it. Your goal post may move as you reach new levels, like SSE 4 2SS, nothing wrong with that. This is all for fun and as long as you are having fun then why not.

To me how much it too much is whatever I can realistically use for the intended purpose of a particular car. I have done a lot of modding over the years, but as I have aged I have realized I am not willing to give up as much for a street car as for a track car.

Having lots of power you can't use adds nothing to your car experience. I can't tell you how many cars I modded and then they just sat, as they were to much to drive or too uncomfortable for the street.

Track cars have an intended purpose - put them in the trailer, get them out, go out, go fast, put away, repeat. That is where I spend my mod dollars today.

Whatever level give you max enjoyment for your car, is the right amount.

[YOLO Z/28]

Definitely don't mod it if you want to retain it as a collectable!!! You see cars gigged for that all the time on Barrett Jackson.

As for power, I figure if 8-900hp is useable for NASCAR at Watkins Glen and Infineon Races at in a 3400lbs stock car, then it should be good enough for a 3800lbs Z

[SSE 4 2SS]

Originally Posted by JUSTIFIED

Interesting insight. That is far beyond what I could afford and would far exceed my driving capabilities. A man has to know his limits. :-) Mind sharing video of your car?

I apologize it's not a Z28, but it is a Camaro...

Hope you enjoy it...

[hammdo]

Now I have to watch 'The Martian' after hearing the music ;o)

Great color on the car BTW...

-Don

[Raven87]

Like many have said, you have to have a set of goals - which can often morph into new goals as SSE 4 2SS pointed out so well - to know where you want to take your car.

I really liked the breakdown and write up by SSE 4 2SS because he detailed in a very vivid way how your goals can often change and the price you pay (not just in $$$) to keep raising the bar for your car.

At the end of the day it just comes down to what do you want to get out of your car and more importantly, what can you handle financially, skill-wise, and the amount of sacrifice you may have to make in other areas (such as comfort and convenience) to get there.

Great post SSE 4 2SS in a great thread.

[28Days]

Love this thread.. My last car was a 2014 Roush RS3 Moosestang with the 1000hp Aluminator Ford Racing upgrade. Had it setup for 600 to the wheels. Was fun from 40-120 but the car was a one trick pony. Have to agree with the notion that I want as much HP as is useable. The z28 has much wider tires, better suspension, etc so Im hoping the chassis will handle the power much better. You guys with 550rwhp+ , how has the car changed? Wheel hop? Traction issues? MPG loss? Im shooting for 550 to the wheels and would like to hear what to expect from those already there. Are the trade-offs worth it to you...would you do it again?
Thx
JJ

[Doubleblank]

After tracking the Z28 during 2014, I found myself running out of power on the back straights at MSR Houston. The more powerful cars would slowly walk away until the next corner. And based on my driver's gut feel, I felt the chassis setup, tires and my ability could easily use another 100 hp. So we pulled the original LS7 and built an ERL 427 with Mast heads, ARH headers and exhaust, ZR1 twin disc clutch, flex fuel and reused the factory intake/tb. The original motor sits on a motor stand and the exhaust system leans up on my garage wall. Anyway, we spec'd the cam for max "under the curve" torque and not max hp. Dynos around 550 rear wheel. I love it now.

[brt3]

As always, the biggest improvement in lap times can be had by FIRST fixing the nut behind the wheel... ;-)

[28Days]

So nobodys had issues with adding an extra 100hp?
Wheel hop? Traction? Driveability?

[Doubleblank]

No wheel hop (but I don't launch hard anyway). Traction is still great on fresh Trofeos. Have to be a little smoother when running older Trofeos and the Michelins. Rear can tend to walk out when hammering it from second into third on the street. I use PTM 3 on the street.