GM's response to the 4 star crash test???

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

The literal police are out in force in this thread. If you think people drive their Camaro's around with blinders on, you're seriously underestimating people.



I'm not trying to be insulting, but really? I'm also an engineer, so you should understand that even if every car on the road had 5-star ratings, the outcomes of the collisions would still be the same.

I would tell everyone here that crash-test safety ratings are a crock of s*** for the most part because nothing in the real world ever happens like in the rediculously controlled environments that these tests are performed in. If you're going to put that much stock in safety ratings, then you're a fool. I don't have any problem with people wanting their family to be safe, but saying that 5-stars versus 4-stars is a deal breaker is rediculous.

Knowing what a vehicle's limits are should be MUCH more important to people than how well it did when it hit a flat wall at 45mph. I mean, really, how often do you see a family sedan just decide to run itself into a concrete wall? You need to be more worried about how to operate the vehicle safely and effectively than putting any faith in a false sense of security. A 5-star rated Prius is not going to survive a collision with a 1-star rated Hum-Vee (I don't know what the actual rating of a Hum-Vee is, but it's just to serve a point).

A person is just as likely of dying in a 5-star rated vehicle as they are in a 1-star rated vehicle if they don't know what the car can and cannot do, especially if they're not educated in how to anticipate problems while driving (i.e. defensive driving). Like has been said, today's 5-star rating could be tomorrow's 1-star rating.

If you want to put all your marbles in crash-test ratings, then by all means, that's your right as a consumer. But please don't go around complaining about it to a bunch of enthusiasts and prospective buyers like it's the end of the world. It's annoying and counter-productive.

[/rant]

woooooooooooooooooooow


I think I need to come up with a name for the attitude of 'Well GM came up short... but your wrong to talk about it!'


There are a laundry list of issues with this car, but it seems like 9 times out of 10 when someone brings them up they get flamed or silenced. This isnt about the validity of Crash Test ratings, and I dont need some random name on the internet explaining to me how its just a big sham and they dont mean anything anyways. For the record I'd guess the general consumer has no idea what 5*'s even means, but they sure can compare 5*'s across the board to 4.5.5. and determine which is the safer car. No need to brush this under the rug, as threads like these arent going to be the major deterent for people who base their choice on Stars anyways, GM already sealed their fate with that crowd.


Sorry. That kind of thinking put GM in the spot they are in now.

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by Zeus

woooooooooooooooooooow


I think I need to come up with a name for the attitude of 'Well GM came up short... but your wrong to talk about it!'


There are a laundry list of issues with this car, but it seems like 9 times out of 10 when someone brings them up they get flamed or silenced. This isnt about the validity of Crash Test ratings, and I dont need some random name on the internet explaining to me how its just a big sham and they dont mean anything anyways. For the record I'd guess the general consumer has no idea what 5*'s even means, but they sure can compare 5*'s across the board to 4.5.5. and determine which is the safer car. No need to brush this under the rug, as threads like these arent going to be the major deterent for people who base their choice on Stars anyways, GM already sealed their fate with that crowd.


Sorry. That kind of thinking put GM in the spot they are in now.

That's awesome. The entire time I was talking about crash-test ratings, did I mention the Camaro? Uh, nope.

I will absolutely agree with you that there have been little issues here and there with the release of a BRAND NEW model of a vehicle, but do I go around bashing Chevrolet and GM for not being clairvoyant? No sir. I'll let you be the glass is half empty guy

I will bet you Chevrolet and GM are probably pretty upset that they didn't get the coveted "Comprehensive 5-star rating" with the Camaro, but given that they turned this car into a reality in a few short years, I don't mind it too much. I will also bet you they're doing everything they can to fix all the issues they see people talking about on these and other boards, even the 5-star fiasco y'all are so adamantly worried about.

If they had delayed the launch another year just to make you and a select minority of others happy with this 5-star BS, they would have had a much larger group of hardcore enthusiasts bitching and moaning that they can't get their car. I would rather piss off the hippies than the rest of the sane world.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

That's awesome. The entire time I was talking about crash-test ratings, did I mention the Camaro? Uh, nope.

I will absolutely agree with you that there have been little issues here and there with the release of a BRAND NEW model of a vehicle, but do I go around bashing Chevrolet and GM for not being clairvoyant? No sir. I'll let you be the glass is half empty guy

I will bet you Chevrolet and GM are probably pretty upset that they didn't get the coveted "Comprehensive 5-star rating" with the Camaro, but given that they turned this car into a reality in a few short years, I don't mind it too much. I will also bet you they're doing everything they can to fix all the issues they see people talking about on these and other boards, even the 5-star fiasco y'all are so adamantly worried about.

If they had delayed the launch another year just to make you and a select minority of others happy with this 5-star BS, they would have had a much larger group of hardcore enthusiasts bitching and moaning that they can't get their car. I would rather piss off the hippies than the rest of the sane world.

I would be willing to bet money on the crowd that cares about crash test ratings, being bigger than the 'hardcore enthusiasts'

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I would be willing to bet money on the crowd that cares about crash test ratings, being bigger than the 'hardcore enthusiasts'

Yeah, I was trying to refer to the people who dig the car because of its styling and performance, but I guess I got caught up using quick and easy references and I should be using long-winded explanations to convey my message.

[fdjizm]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

Yeah, I was trying to refer to the people who dig the car because of its styling and performance, but I guess I got caught up using quick and easy references and I should be using long-winded explanations to convey my message.

Actually you called everyone who cares about safety ratings a "select minority" that being the general public, is not such a minority. na' mean?

[MLL67RSSS]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

I'm not trying to be insulting, but really? I'm also an engineer, so you should understand that even if every car on the road had 5-star ratings, the outcomes of the collisions would still be the same.

I would tell everyone here that crash-test safety ratings are a crock of s*** for the most part because nothing in the real world ever happens like in the rediculously controlled environments that these tests are performed in. If you're going to put that much stock in safety ratings, then you're a fool. I don't have any problem with people wanting their family to be safe, but saying that 5-stars versus 4-stars is a deal breaker is rediculous.

Well of course they aren't "real world" results. You simply cannot "plan" accidents with all possible variables and accumulate any specific, repeatable, useful data. It has to be done in a controlled scientific environment with as few variables as possible to acheive any useful scientific data. Being an engineer I would think you would understand that. Also they certainly cannot crash a certain model of vehicle into every single other model at every conceivable angle and direction. Nor can they crash into every type of thing people could crash into in every conceivable way. These type of tests are only there to show you that if you are shopping for let's say a Challenger vs. a Camaro, that if you WERE to be involved in an ACCIDENT that is a frontal collision, you stand a slightly better chance at avoiding injury in the Challenger in the same accident. Knowledge can be a good thing.

Kind of reminds me of the whole EPA MPG thing. Cars were tested in a controlled scientific way where repeatable and useful data could be collected. It was NEVER a way for people to know the exact mileage they would get in that model of car, way too many variables. They simply could not do it "real world" and get useful data. What if it was windy or raining one day when they were testing a different car, what if one tester has a different driving style than another etc., etc., etc. The point of the EPA MPG rating was so if you were shopping for car "A" and car "B", car "A" would get a certain percentange better/worse MPG than car "B", NOT THAT if you buy car "A" this is the exact MPG you will get. But of course the general public was just way to ignorant to understand that, so much so that they finally re-engineered the tests to try and have their data closer to "real world" results because after all these years people STILL just don't get it. I myself have explained it to people so many times I've given up. I'll say it one more time "THIS DATA MAY OR MAY NOT BE THE RESULTS YOU ACHEIVE, THIS IS SIMPLE SCIENTIFIC DATA SO YOU MAY MAKE AN INTELLIGENT INFORMED DECISION IF YOU ARE CROSS SHOPPING DIFFERENT MAKES/MODELS!"

[MrIcky]

I doubt if Chevy publicly addresses this- they may makes some adjustments to make it 5 stars though and resubmit (if possible). My question is if your children have ever been in that camaro in your avatar .

[MLL67RSSS]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

My question is if your children have ever been in that camaro in your avatar .

If that is for me then yes, my son and only child has ridden in it many times. Of course he's 25 now, and I've only had it ten years. No airbags (other than me) in that baby! I've put about 23-24K miles on it since I've owned it. Look at it this way, it's safer than a motorcycle.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by MLL67RSSS

If that is for me then yes, my son and only child has ridden in it many times. Of course he's 25 now, and I've only had it ten years. No airbags (other than me) in that baby! I've put about 23-24K miles on in since I've owned it. Look at it this way, it's safer than a motorcycle.

Well it was actually to Zedder. But ya yours is nice too. I remember begging to sit in the back of Dad's Blazer- and being allowed to do so. What is that, somewhere around -8 on the safety scale?

[carfansince73]

Originally Posted by jimhowie2000

I am sure all those people who only buy a car based on 5 star crash ratings need those 5 stars....for when they are text messaging while driving and rear end someone else!

Actually, I'll take the 5 stars BECAUSE of all those idiots texting while driving and possibly crashing into me.

[MLL67RSSS]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

Well it was actually to Zedder. But ya yours is nice too. I remember begging to sit in the back of Dad's Blazer- and being allowed to do so. What is that, somewhere around -8 on the safety scale?

Thanks! At least that one has a roof on it! Of course I've mentioned in another thread, when I was a little kid seat belts were an option. Our '58 Chevy wagon didn't even have them! I forget the comedian that said it about those old battleships of cars, said something like, "Back then if you had an accident they'd just hose you out of it and sell it to the next guy!"

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by fdjizm

Actually you called everyone who cares about safety ratings a "select minority" that being the general public, is not such a minority. na' mean?

So, you think everyone in the general public is going to be seriously considering the purchase of a sports/muscle car?

Originally Posted by MLL67RSSS

Well of course they aren't "real world" results. You simply cannot "plan" accidents with all possible variables and accumulate any specific, repeatable, useful data. It has to be done in a controlled scientific environment with as few variables as possible to acheive any useful scientific data. Being an engineer I would think you would understand that. Also they certainly cannot crash a certain model of vehicle into every single other model at every conceivable angle and direction. Nor can they crash into every type of thing people could crash into in every conceivable way. These type of tests are only there to show you that if you are shopping for let's say a Challenger vs. a Camaro, that if you WERE to be involved in an ACCIDENT that is a frontal collision, you stand a slightly better chance at avoiding injury in the Challenger in the same accident. Knowledge can be a good thing.

Kind of reminds me of the whole EPA MPG thing. Cars were tested in a controlled scientific way where repeatable and useful data could be collected. It was NEVER a way for people to know the exact mileage they would get in that model of car, way too many variables. They simply could not do it "real world" and get useful data. What if it was windy or raining one day when they were testing a different car, what if one tester has a different driving style than another etc., etc., etc. The point of the EPA MPG rating was so if you were shopping for car "A" and car "B", car "A" would get a certain percentange better/worse MPG than car "B", NOT THAT if you buy car "A" this is the exact MPG you will get. But of course the general public was just way to ignorant to understand that, so much so that they finally re-engineered the tests to try and have their data closer to "real world" results because after all these years people STILL just don't get it. I myself have explained it to people so many times I've given up. I'll say it one more time "THIS DATA MAY OR MAY NOT BE THE RESULTS YOU ACHEIVE, THIS IS SIMPLE SCIENTIFIC DATA SO YOU MAY MAKE AN INTELLIGENT INFORMED DECISION IF YOU ARE CROSS SHOPPING DIFFERENT MAKES/MODELS!"

That's exactly my point. I'm trying to tell people that using crash-test ratings to feel "safe" about their car is absolutely rediculous. I've heard complete idiots say, verbatim, "My car has a 5-star crash test rating so it's safer than your car." I can guarantee you, with that particular individual behind the wheel, their car could have a 10-star crash-test rating and still be a death trap.

I think the crash-test ratings, both by the government and the insurance institute, just provide people with an extremely false sense of security. That's why I can't understand why anyone uses those tests as a deal breaker for purchasing one car over another. It just boggles my mind.

[fdjizm]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

So, you think everyone in the general public is going to be seriously considering the purchase of a sports/muscle car?



That's exactly my point. I'm trying to tell people that using crash-test ratings to feel "safe" about their car is absolutely rediculous. I've heard complete idiots say, verbatim, "My car has a 5-star crash test rating so it's safer than your car." I can guarantee you, with that particular individual behind the wheel, their car could have a 10-star crash-test rating and still be a death trap.

I think the crash-test ratings, both by the government and the insurance institute, just provide people with an extremely false sense of security. That's why I can't understand why anyone uses those tests as a deal breaker for purchasing one car over another. It just boggles my mind.

so in your opinion they should do away with safety testing because it's basically meaningless?

have you ever read up on the differences in "transfer of force" in a car crash?

let me give you a small example.

car A: is hit by a driver going the wrong way on a street at 40mph there is 500lbs of force transferred to the driver of car A from the impact.

car B: is hit by a driver going the wrong way on a street at 40mph there is 900lbs of force transferred to the driver of car B from the impact.

Which person would be in better shape after this crash? for argument sake it's the exact same crash. but car B transfers more force to the driver.. this is what the ratings are all about.

[Fiverz]

Originally Posted by fdjizm

so in your opinion they should do away with safety testing because it's basically meaningless?

have you ever read up on the differences in "transfer of force" in a car crash?

let me give you a small example.

car A: is hit by a driver going the wrong way on a street at 40mph there is 500lbs of force transferred to the driver of car A from the impact.

car B: is hit by a driver going the wrong way on a street at 40mph there is 900lbs of force transferred to the driver of car B from the impact.

Which person would be in better shape after this crash? for argument sake it's the exact same crash. but car B transfers more force to the driver.. this is what the ratings are all about.

There's a problem with this logic though. It only applies to that one particular circumstance of transferring that amount of force in that exact direction into that exact same object. But it also means that you could A) apply a different amount of force B) in a different direction with C) a different object and you would get different results. This applies to all vehicles ... the test is not simply one of "force" it's one of "force applied via a constant speed at a single direction/point with a wall made of consistent material."

I still take the results in to account when purchasing a car ... but to say definitively you would survive a crash more likely in car A than car B is simply flawed and impossible to determine.

That being said, to the OP ... I am unaware of any announcement and I doubt there will be one unless they DO make some refinements in a future MY or run. I don't expect them to however, as others have stated ... the majority of people purchasing a sports car/muscle car do so knowing the risks.