6th generation Camaro VS 50th Anniversary Mustang

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

Well GM did go bankrupt and it's more than likely they wanted to make sure that the Camaro would sell before they did anything drastic that could send them spiralling back. Ford of course had no real competition in the Market until the Camaro came out. No offence to the owners of Challengers but they aren't exactly flying out of dealerships.

If Chevy truly wanted to make a competitor to the Boss 302 they would add adjustable suspension to the 1LE, in my opinion, or as you said brought out a Z/28.

Not to start a war or anything but Chevy didn't seem to start caring about Fifth Generation Camaro owners until more recently. Ford, I'll give Chevy the fact that the Camaro hasn't been out as long, has a lot more parts available for the Mustang from the Dealer.

I think the Z/28 needs to be revived whether or not the 1LE is capable of beating the BOSS (which is done now). If they added more HP and a bit more aero, it would eat the BOSS for breakfast. I mean how can the Camaro be revived without the quintessential Camaro in the line up, even if it is late to the game.

IMO, the Camaro can use some factory upgrades that don't void the warranty.

[2012 Mustang GT]

It's going to be interesting to see what Chevy does with the next gen Camaro. I know the ATS is light, but it also doesnt have the engines, heavier duty trans and rear that the camaro will need to keep from breaking parts. All those will add weight. I think the new Camaro is going to be lighter than the current car. But still closer to the current GT500 weight. 3700-3800 pounds. Which will help the car tremendously. The 2015 mustang is still going to be 200-300 pounds lighter across the models i believe. And sales for both have leveled off and are pretty much dead even. The Challenger is just an afterthought.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by 2012 Mustang GT

It's going to be interesting to see what Chevy does with the next gen Camaro. I know the ATS is light, but it also doesnt have the engines, heavier duty trans and rear that the camaro will need to keep from breaking parts. All those will add weight. I think the new Camaro is going to be lighter than the current car. But still closer to the current GT500 weight. 3700-3800 pounds. Which will help the car tremendously. The 2015 mustang is still going to be 200-300 pounds lighter across the models i believe. And sales for both have leveled off and are pretty much dead even. The Challenger is just an afterthought.

We can guess at what the Gen 6 will bring but I am more interested in how GM will develop the Gen 5 more, if at all.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I think the Z/28 needs to be revived whether or not the 1LE is capable of beating the BOSS (which is done now). If they added more HP and a bit more aero, it would eat the BOSS for breakfast. I mean how can the Camaro be revived without the quintessential Camaro in the line up, even if it is late to the game.

IMO, the Camaro can use some factory upgrades that don't void the warranty.

I have no doubt that the reason the ZL1 and 1LE perform better, most of the time on a track, is due to driver confidence. Though I have never had a problem with pulling 1.3G Turns in my Shelby (confidence wise) most people would with a solid axel so it's easier for a car with IRS to out perform when the confidence to go faster in a corner is there…

Of course that being said I'm not saying they out perform just due to the driver but it's a factor you have to account for.

I personally also wouldn't want a Z/28 in this body. Maybe if it weighed what the Mustang does but not the current weight… I don't care how well they can make the Camaro handle, the weight is too much in my opinion for a true track car. Not that the Boss is light enough in my opinion either.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

I have no doubt that the reason the ZL1 and 1LE perform better, most of the time on a track, is due to driver confidence. Though I have never had a problem with pulling 1.3G Turns in my Shelby (confidence wise) most people would with a solid axel so it's easier for a car with IRS to out perform when the confidence to go faster in a corner is there…

Of course that being said I'm not saying they out perform just due to the driver but it's a factor you have to account for.

I personally also wouldn't want a Z/28 in this body. Maybe if it weighed what the Mustang does but not the current weight...

The Mustang is a great car (I know, blasphemy on this site) but I gotta admit, the BOSS 302 sounds amazing. No Camaro comes close.

I think the Camaro's weight is somewhat overblown. The car has proven it can handle well. Now just add around 505 N/A horsepower with even better 1LE suspension, some more ZL1 aero, ZL1 brakes and a Z/28 badge.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The Mustang is a great car (I know, blasphemy on this site) but I gotta admit, the BOSS 302 sounds amazing. No Camaro comes close.

I think the Camaro's weight is somewhat overblown. The car has proven it can handle well. Now just add around 505 N/A horsepower with even better 1LE suspension, some more ZL1 aero, ZL1 brakes and a Z/28 badge.

It's true about the Boss 302. I plan on adding the Boss Sidepipes to my GT500 to add the rumble.

The big thing is, and just my opinion, Chevy made the mistake of making the ZL1 the car with Magnetic Ride Control or more appropriately the only Camaro (as of now). If they wanted a to build a track car which, sorry to burst everyone's bubble, a nearly 2 short ton Supercharged Heat Soaking Camaro isn't. They should have done everything they did with the ZL1, kept the Z28 name like they had originally planned and kept it Naturally Aspirated. I bet the Z28 with the same performance enhancements and a naturally aspirated engine making around 505 Horsepower would do better on the road course and at the drag strip than the ZL1 or at least very similar.

Of course that is just my opinion and I understand the need for Chevy to introduce a car that could compete with the GT500.

[VADER SS L99]

A V6 ATS with auto trans weighs 3450 lbs so if GM really wanted to make the new 6TH gen V8 Camaro around 3500 lbs they could do it. With a 450 hp LT1 and only 3500 lbs the new Camaro could really be a quick car. We just need to hope thats what they do. For comparison my 3400lb 4th gen probably had only 410hp and ran low 12's. The 6th gen could be a factory 11 second car if they get the weight down.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

It's true about the Boss 302. I plan on adding the Boss Sidepipes to my GT500 to add the rumble.

The big thing is, and just my opinion, Chevy made the mistake of making the ZL1 the car with Magnetic Ride Control or more appropriately the only Camaro (as of now). If they wanted a to build a track car which, sorry to burst everyone's bubble, a nearly 2 short ton Supercharged Heat Soaking Camaro isn't. They should have done everything they did with the ZL1, kept the Z28 name like they had originally planned and kept it Naturally Aspirated. I bet the Z28 with the same performance enhancements and a naturally aspirated engine making around 505 Horsepower would do better on the road course and at the drag strip than the ZL1 or at least very similar.

Of course that is just my opinion and I understand the need for Chevy to introduce a car that could compete with the GT500.

The ZL1 doesn't make sense to me. I don't think it should have happened. I'd rather have a N/A engine than F/I. The problem is GM opened their mouth about the ZL1 way too early and Ford blew it out of the water.

[Cyber Gray]

Originally Posted by slick rick

Do you mean this 50th anniversary Mustang or the next generation of Mustang?

http://www.mustangheaven.com/2012/20...-holman-moody/

Well they will release the new Mustang Generation in the 50th anniversary so you can call it what you like

[Cyber Gray]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

Unfortunately though, you and I both own Camaro's that CAN'T HANDLE from factory. Chevy only started caring about the Camaro's handling with the introduction of the ZL1. Then after seeing how people loved the Boss 302 they brought out the 1LE Package for the SS.

And again the GT500 and ZL1 is a toss up on a road course. It all depends on the driver.

Also to your comment "Don't forget that the same level competing mustang costs more across the board." That really only applies to the Boss and GT500. Every other Mustang costs much and comes with Standard HID's.

When people say that Chevy follows Ford they mean because Ford always seems to make the first move with the Mustang. You'll see what people mean if you look at the fact that the Camaro up until the ZL1 didn't handle very well and Ford despite having put a Stick Axle in the Mustang made it handle quite exceptionally for what it is before the before Chevy made the Camaro ZL1 do what it does.

Ford likely never had the plan of making the Mustang handle the way it does as most people use Pony Cars for Drag Racing.

You raised an important point now. Do we consider Chevy to follow or drive the market ahead?

The 5th generation has a killer look for sure and the transformers movie gave it a big push forward. We bought the car because it is a real beast ignoring the cheap interior and some major components that doesnt fit exactly a sports car so we had to spend some cash to improve it.

Now the question is did Chevy tried to catch up with ford by launching the 1LE and the ZL1 because it was hard to improve the SS in a full scale?

[Bhobbs]

I think GM took the lead by adding IRS to the Camaro but failed to capitalize on it. The 1LE is how the SS should have been from the beginning.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by jkupa10

In this thread:

"I think"
"I heard"
"I believe"
"I expect"

Your exactly right, but you also know there are plenty of clues and other vehicles to keep an eye on to help form an idea as to the possible weight and performance of the next gen Camaro. As far as looks/interior...stuff like that. No clue.

Originally Posted by 2012 Mustang GT

It's going to be interesting to see what Chevy does with the next gen Camaro. I know the ATS is light, but it also doesnt have the engines, heavier duty trans and rear that the camaro will need to keep from breaking parts. All those will add weight. I think the new Camaro is going to be lighter than the current car. But still closer to the current GT500 weight. 3700-3800 pounds. Which will help the car tremendously. The 2015 mustang is still going to be 200-300 pounds lighter across the models i believe. And sales for both have leveled off and are pretty much dead even. The Challenger is just an afterthought.

If it weighs that much it will be a travesty...especially when Ford is rumored to be shooting for less weight than the current car. That would mean another 300+ lb advantage to the Mustang again in the next generation.

The ATS V6 is a good performer, claimed at 5.6 seconds to 60. It is a sports sedan...it had better be well engineered. Do you think the V6 Camaro version of that car would really require a beefier drivetrain? Not likely....and if the Camaro has less tech, and less other stuff like sound dampening material, it could possibly weigh a tad less.

Now lets look at the current Camaro. The V6 weighs in at around 3,750 lbs. The V8 is around 100+ lbs more than that which includes the beefier drivetrain, brakes, suspension. Now apply that same logic to the next gen Camaro (with the V6 weighing in at around 3,450 lbls just like the V6 ATS does) and you have a V8 Camaro in the 3,500 to 3,600lb range. I think that if a base V8 is even close to 3,700 or higher in the next gen Camaro would be a failure.

[C5RocksC5]

Originally Posted by jkupa10

In this thread:

"I think"
"I heard"
"I believe"
"I expect"

they equate to FACTS to some folks.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by Cyber Gray

You raised an important point now. Do we consider Chevy to follow or drive the market ahead?

The 5th generation has a killer look for sure and the transformers movie gave it a big push forward. We bought the car because it is a real beast ignoring the cheap interior and some major components that doesnt fit exactly a sports car so we had to spend some cash to improve it.

Now the question is did Chevy tried to catch up with ford by launching the 1LE and the ZL1 because it was hard to improve the SS in a full scale?

As I have mentioned before, I believe that Chevy was reluctant to put the engineering dollars into the ZL1 and 1LE until they had proven the Camaro was here to stay (for this generation). As Chevy originally cancelled the Z/28/ZL1 program revived it. After the car was proven successful. I believe it was that Chevy didn't want to take the risk with bringing out all these models until they had a car that was selling enough to justify them.

As per the first question:

It's a complex question. You could say that Ford is driving the Pony Car market by introducing these high performing cars, while Chevy is also driving the market by introducing their competitors to Fords cars. You could also say that the technology in the ZL1 is pushing Pony Cars ahead quite a bit but you could say the same about the GT500 and the Boss. I don't believe that anyone is truly in the lead, especially because it's usually a toss up between the ZL1 and GT500, but I can certainly say that Ford and Chevy are driving the Pony Car market more significantly that Mopar.