Dec 2017 - "Ask Al" - Poll #2

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 90503

With a poll of three questions, someone is always going to feel left out. (The three chosen here were all posed well before the trans shudder thread appeared, IIRC...)

Regardless, don't stress, there will be more polls....My topic (so called reclining seats that don't fully recline) is an issue in every 6thGen Camaro built, but doubtful it will ever win the poll, or might after many others...

If you feel it's an easy/softball question, the answer should come quickly and the next poll created soon thereafter.

I voted for the track settings question....Who knows, the answer to this one may also include why or why not a strut tower brace was or wasn't used at the 'Ring...It might be a 2fer...lol

Yup. We've got 60 or so question threads here right now. Which means that most people would probably rather have something else answered than any of the 3 that were selected. And, unless 1 question gets more than half the votes (which looks unlikely) ... most people will be unhappy with the question that gets sent to Al. Thats just how numbers work. The first few were always going going to be the most controversial

But, and here's the thing: a lot of people will be happy with the result (whatever it is). Then next time, another question gets answered. And people will still be unhappy that their preferred question didn't get picked. And so on. I just hope that the ratio of happy to unhappy improves over the coming months.

[Infern0]

I'm not buying by any of that dismissive rhetoric. There are multiple threads on the M6 launch including the main poll that Travis has facilitated much discussion about. The discussion is 7 pages now, nearly 6K views, and also has a poll with over 40 votes responses indicating they've experienced an impact. How that can be perceived as paling sufficient interest is beyond me.

Why not ask why they went with chrome lugnuts, or why they used red seat stitching instead of blue....so profound!

Ugh - very salty about this. Definitely a no vote for me.

[DFW1LE]

Originally Posted by Infern0

I'm not buying by any of that dismissive rhetoric. There are multiple threads on the M6 launch including the main poll that Travis has facilitated much discussion about. The discussion is 7 pages now, nearly 6K views, and also has a poll with over 40 votes responses indicating they've experienced an impact. How that can be perceived as paling sufficient interest is beyond me.

Why not ask why they went with chrome lugnuts, or why they used red seat stitching instead of blue....so profound!

Ugh - very salty about this. Definitely a no vote for me.

+1 I am a bit surprised this wasn't mentioned as a question to vote on. Is it too late to add this as a question?

Why are M6 Camaro's experiencing bog issues when launching, especially ZL1s and what can be done to remedy this situation?

[Gunkk]

I’d rather ask Al to explain how the torque management works. How it is implemented in the car, drivetrain, ect., and how it interacts with the ECU and TCU. What is “always on” and what dynamic events trigger the spark timing pull.

We already know the ZL1 and some amped up SS will bog under certain (most?) higher torque launches and in the ZL1’s case most normal daily driving 1st gear starts. And we know theres’s a bug in the ZL1 programming.

We deduce they implemented TM to protect the car from the driver, and it allows Chevy to honor the full warranty at the track. That is something that FCA and Ford don’t do, and that is why they set up their cars for much harder launching, and why the ‘18 GT does comparitively so well at the strip.

Knowing more about the TM may help get some answers to some long sought after questions, and help those M6 ZL1 camaro owners with launch issues to live with the TM.

[travislambert]

The original M6 ZL1 launch thread has almost 35,000 views and 440 posts. The secondary thread on the same issue has almost 6,500 views and 98 posts.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498180
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10003905

I'm a little confused myself as to why this question didn't at least make the poll. Clearly it's a real issue of interest to the forum members.

Maybe going forward we could select more than 3 questions for the poll. I'm thinking maybe up to 10 or so?

[travislambert]

Isn't the answer to the question about the front camera somewhat obvious? Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't imagine it isn't cost. The CTS-V and Corvette have it, so ...

[ninetres]

I have a a10 and am more interested in the m6 bog issue that everyone who has driven one complains about than these 3 topics. Maybe it can make the poll in Jan.

TQ management is also a topic that would provide some interesting behind the scenes insight. The member who posted his TPS showed 39-40% an entire quarter mile pass definitely shed some light on how much these cars are being neutered by the TM.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by travislambert

Isn't the answer to the question about the front camera somewhat obvious?

Yes and we have some strategery afoot.

[waterman]

Originally Posted by Infern0

I'm not buying by any of that dismissive rhetoric. There are multiple threads on the M6 launch including the main poll that Travis has facilitated much discussion about. The discussion is 7 pages now, nearly 6K views, and also has a poll with over 40 votes responses indicating they've experienced an impact. How that can be perceived as paling sufficient interest is beyond me.

Why not ask why they went with chrome lugnuts, or why they used red seat stitching instead of blue....so profound!

Ugh - very salty about this. Definitely a no vote for me.

I have to agree.
IMHO a much more "profound" concern/question than those in this month's poll.

Originally Posted by Gunkk

I’d rather ask Al to explain how the torque management works. How it is implemented in the car, drivetrain, ect., and how it interacts with the ECU and TCU. What is “always on” and what dynamic events trigger the spark timing pull.

We already know the ZL1 and some amped up SS will bog under certain (most?) higher torque launches and in the ZL1’s case most normal daily driving 1st gear starts. And we know theres’s a bug in the ZL1 programming.

We deduce they implemented TM to protect the car from the driver, and it allows Chevy to honor the full warranty at the track. That is something that FCA and Ford don’t do, and that is why they set up their cars for much harder launching, and why the ‘18 GT does comparitively so well at the strip.

Knowing more about the TM may help get some answers to some long sought after questions, and help those M6 ZL1 camaro owners with launch issues to live with the TM.

Outstanding points of interest.. Dilly Dilly!
This post most definitely helps most forum members to better understand and protect our monetary and emotional investment.
Seriously, a well thought out legitimate concern. I believe that to most of us, to be of much greater importance than this month's three.

Originally Posted by travislambert

The original M6 ZL1 launch thread has almost 35,000 views and 440 posts. The secondary thread on the same issue has almost 6,500 views and 98 posts.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498180
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10003905

I'm a little confused myself as to why this question didn't at least make the poll. Clearly it's a real issue of interest to the forum members.

Maybe going forward we could select more than 3 questions for the poll. I'm thinking maybe up to 10 or so?

Travis has invested countless hours pursuing the answers to this question.
Thanks Trav for fighting the good fight.
Obviously with the number of members concern in the forums about this issue, (again given our investment in this car), I would hope that Team Camaro would help us to better understand this issue.

Originally Posted by ninetres

I have a a10 and am more interested in the m6 bog issue that everyone who has driven one complains about than these 3 topics. Maybe it can make the poll in Jan.

TQ management is also a topic that would provide some interesting behind the scenes insight. The member who posted his TPS showed 39-40% an entire quarter mile pass definitely shed some light on how much these cars are being neutered by the TM.

Again, great point.
Understanding TQ management isn't M6 exclusive.
650/650 is the real deal. I get it, GM doesn't want to be buried in warranty claims. Just help us to better understand what the ELSD and ECM are saying to each other. So that we can keep them happy.

Originally Posted by travislambert

Isn't the answer to the question about the front camera somewhat obvious? Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't imagine it isn't cost. The CTS-V and Corvette have it, so ...

Yup.
Not one of us have a (Camaro) factory installed FWD cam. Maybe a better question as we get closer to model year 2019.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by travislambert

The original M6 ZL1 launch thread has almost 35,000 views and 440 posts. The secondary thread on the same issue has almost 6,500 views and 98 posts.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498180
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10003905

I'm a little confused myself as to why this question didn't at least make the poll. Clearly it's a real issue of interest to the forum members.

Maybe going forward we could select more than 3 questions for the poll. I'm thinking maybe up to 10 or so?

I agree this would be a great topic but was it even listed as a possible topic in the Ask Al section? There is your reason.

The A8 shudder was listed in Ask Al and has the highest number of replies (46) and views (2,812) of possible topics.

Strut tower brace - 31 posts, 1,561 views
ZL1 1LE Nurburgring chassis settings - 14 posts, 1,668 views
No front camera - 14 posts, 1,342 views

Maybe going forward we could select the top 3 questions in the Ask Al section.

FYI - There is also a A8 shudder discussion section in Transmissions with 331 posts, 48,487 views.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I agree this would be a great topic but was it even listed as a possible topic in the Ask Al section? There is your reason.

Infern0 beat me to it. It's been in Ask Al since 10/24.
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511546

I'd be happy to do a detailed post with specific questions, and as others have suggested simply ask for an explanation of torque management (at least with how it relates to launching).

[URBAN LEGEND]

Guys I see your points. However, please don’t overthink this. If you don’t like the subjects then don’t vote. I sure didn’t vote. Make your vote or non vote count.

[Infern0]

Originally Posted by travislambert

Infern0 beat me to it. It's been in Ask Al since 10/24.
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511546

I'd be happy to do a detailed post with specific questions, and as others have suggested simply ask for an explanation of torque management (at least with how it relates to launching).

My thought process in the wording that was used in my thread for this section was to be clear on the desired topic, but to be vague enough in the ask/question that Al and the team could take their own path in addressing the perceived issue and any route forward without getting handcuffed by their legal/marketing team. This will be important for this topic since we've already seen their public responses are being closely scrutinized and controlled. Just because there is an illusion of dialogue between this forum and that team doesn't remove those constraints. I also want to avoid having the response about wheel slip and eLSD already provided to the Corvette group provided as the canned response here (note it is already approved by legal as well).

That said, it doesn't seem like egregious suggestion to have a fourth (or even more) options in these polls and let the votes speak for themselves (has in fact been suggested more than a couple times now too). After all there are nearly more comments on a non-listed topic than there are total votes. Should be an indication that an error was made in the selection process - or something behind the scenes isn't being shared - which in this case seems far more likely, as has already been said, there cannot be any question about the collective interest on this topic at this point.

[Norm Peterson]

Maybe each poll should pick the top three questions from the same general category, with a different category each time so that nobody's favorite category gets shut out every time.


Norm