New BMW M3/M4 uglier, slower, and heavier than 6th Gen Camaro

[shaffe]

That is one ugly motherF

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by NeXvZEiN

I highly doubt this will be slower than our stock cars. BMW has a bad habit of underestimating their acceleration numbers, a lot. I almost put down a deposit on the new M4, but decided to wait, thankfully. This car is going to be a monster on the streets, take my word for it.

Yeah, 503hp by BMW standards is 503hp at the wheels. It may not handle quite as well (but it will be no slouch there either), but it's likely to nail the acceleration thing, especially with AWD. In a straight line, it will embarrass you, even a ZL1 until you get well into illegal speeds.

The real question is after 50,000 miles, will it grenade the engine, have the ECUs blank out, fry turbos, etc?

And yes, they hit these cars hard with the ugly stick.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Hops

The 19 is great, so glad i went to see one in person. And it seems like if one really hated the 19, they would not like the 20 either

I do wonder if this M3/M4 looks better in person though, i was convinced the bmw e82 1 series was really ugly until i saw it in person and then i bought one new.

I hated the '19 refresh. The '20 is much better even though it's a pretty simple change IMO. I mean i'm not sure it moved the needle either way given folks didn't buy either one. Probably only enthusiasts upset about it.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by snizzle

I hated the '19 refresh. The '20 is much better even though it's a pretty simple change IMO. I mean i'm not sure it moved the needle either way given folks didn't buy either one. Probably only enthusiasts upset about it.

I don't know what it is about the often used pic you put of the blue 2019 that looks off, but it does. It just doesn't look good. The GMAuthority pic i attached comparing the two looks much better to me. I have to say, as with most mid-cycle refreshes most of the complaining comes strangely from the pre-refresh owners who really have little at stake. When i was considering the Camaro last year, i ignored them, and well the automotive media as well who were telling me the 2019 in an abomination, or that you can't see out of the car, or that i won't be able to daily drive it. I'm glad i did.
I should add the bit of paint they added to the 2020 is fine, if i had to replace mine with a 2021 i probably wouldn't go through the trouble of reverting it back to the my preference to 2019, well unless i was wrapping it another color (which requires removing the front bumper of course), in which case it would buy that $120 central bar.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Hops

I don't know what it is about the often used pic you put of the blue 2019 that looks off, but it does. It just doesn't look good. The GMAuthority pic i attached comparing the two looks much better to me. I have to say, as with most mid-cycle refreshes most of the complaining comes strangely from the pre-refresh owners who really have little at stake. When i was considering the Camaro last year, i ignored them, and well the automotive media as well who were telling me the 2019 in an abomination, or that you can't see out of the car, or that i won't be able to daily drive it. I'm glad i did.
I should add the bit of paint they added to the 2020 is fine, if i had to replace mine with a 2021 i probably wouldn't go through the trouble of reverting it back to the my preference to 2019, well unless i was wrapping it another color (which requires removing the front bumper of course), in which case it would buy that $120 central bar.

It was a GM marketing picture I believe and I agree it doesn't look good. Glad you're enjoying your car!

[BuddyLee]

A brown BMW cruising the Autobaun with tree branch option.

[Hops]

The after market already has a M4 grille update!

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/10/19/v...bmw-m4-grille/

[RagingHawk]

Consider how the regulations are over in the EU, it appears BMW is making it this way on purpose. By adding all AWD to the M3/M4 competition models they are trying to prepare their fanbase for change. Next gen will be all electric/AWD because they want to match Tesla's acceleration times.

Tesla is basically going to turn EV performance cars into AWD boats with lots of power. Tesla is trying to make it seem like their vehicles have an edge over ICE vehicles in order to kill the idea of balanced/fun performance ICE vehicles and force the market to take a turn to their advantage. The market is gonna respond with the same thing eventually and performance EV's will be the same instant torque, AWD, heavy vehicles.

That's why I can't stand Tesla and their cult of followers. Now they are trying to get a chunk of truck sales by releasing a 'truck' that looks so different and of course the low self esteem masses will jump on this new trend to be the first to get into a bizarre looking 'truck'(even though tons of others will be 'first' too, lol) and the truck market is gonna take a stupid direction. Hopefully GM doesn't feel the need to push EV trucks too quickly as they cannot adequately replace proven and dependable ICE trucks until another 15-20 years for the EV tech to evolve.

So while I do see EV as being the future(I don't like it, however), I do not agree with this direction that is being forced upon us way too rapidly. If it keeps us like this than expect to have to pay 40K for a 200 mile range 150-200 hp entry level EV cars and expect RWD affordable sport coupes to disappear. You will have to get one of those stupid shoe, half-suv/half-car looking Tesla things and the Tesla cultist clowns will be raving about 0-60 times as if that's all that matters in performance cars. You can also expect to see very aggressive Karen's on the street that will rear end a ton of people as they tend not to have patience once the lights turn green and will apply at least half throttle instantly. And that combined with instant torque is not a safe combo.

With the way this SUV/instant EV torque trend is heading, Miatia drivers will be squashed like ants by super monster truck EV's ten years from now because everyone thinks bigger=better and faster in straight line=best performing. God help us.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Consider how the regulations are over in the EU, it appears BMW is making it this way on purpose. By adding all AWD to the M3/M4 competition models they are trying to prepare their fanbase for change. Next gen will be all electric/AWD because they want to match Tesla's acceleration times.

Tesla is basically going to turn EV performance cars into AWD boats with lots of power. Tesla is trying to make it seem like their vehicles have an edge over ICE vehicles in order to kill the idea of balanced/fun performance ICE vehicles and force the market to take a turn to their advantage. The market is gonna respond with the same thing eventually and performance EV's will be the same instant torque, AWD, heavy vehicles.

That's why I can't stand Tesla and their cult of followers. Now they are trying to get a chunk of truck sales by releasing a 'truck' that looks so different and of course the low self esteem masses will jump on this new trend to be the first to get into a bizarre looking 'truck'(even though tons of others will be 'first' too, lol) and the truck market is gonna take a stupid direction. Hopefully GM doesn't feel the need to push EV trucks too quickly as they cannot adequately replace proven and dependable ICE trucks until another 15-20 years for the EV tech to evolve.

So while I do see EV as being the future(I don't like it, however), I do not agree with this direction that is being forced upon us way too rapidly. If it keeps us like this than expect to have to pay 40K for a 200 mile range 150-200 hp entry level EV cars and expect RWD affordable sport coupes to disappear. You will have to get one of those stupid shoe, half-suv/half-car looking Tesla things and the Tesla cultist clowns will be raving about 0-60 times as if that's all that matters in performance cars. You can also expect to see very aggressive Karen's on the street that will rear end a ton of people as they tend not to have patience once the lights turn green and will apply at least half throttle instantly. And that combined with instant torque is not a safe combo.

With the way this SUV/instant EV torque trend is heading, Miatia drivers will be squashed like ants by super monster truck EV's ten years from now because everyone thinks bigger=better and faster in straight line=best performing. God help us.

I know enough people who actually use trucks for what they are designed for and capable of to know, as long as people need trucks, the V8 internal combustion and Diesel engines will exist. 300 years from now some people may be whizzing around in self driving electric toasters but people who actually do work will be driving a Silverado or F150 with a gasoline or Diesel engine.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

I know enough people who actually use trucks for what they are designed for and capable of to know, as long as people need trucks, the V8 internal combustion and Diesel engines will exist. 300 years from now some people may be whizzing around in self driving electric toasters but people who actually do work will be driving a Silverado or F150 with a gasoline or Diesel engine.

Well said, I'm positive GM will drag out the V8 in the pickups and SUVS for as long as possible. They are bulletproof powertrains that are the most capable work trucks as well. EV is not meant to replace them anytime soon.

[metros11]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

I know enough people who actually use trucks for what they are designed for and capable of to know, as long as people need trucks, the V8 internal combustion and Diesel engines will exist.300 years from now some people may be whizzing around in self driving electric toasters but people who actually do work will be driving a Silverado or F150 with a gasoline or Diesel engine.

30 years yes, 300 no. By then battery technology will outperform anything with an ICE. Loads of torque, linear driving dynamics, less components, will be much cheaper to fuel, fast charging... ICEs will be collectibles.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

BMW has tried to claim that people were asking for over-sized kidney grilles. I highly doubt it. This is terrible. The last gen M4 looks much better IMO.

[Petrol Head]

Chip Foose fixed it. Every car company on the planet should contract with him as a consultant:

https://youtu.be/7NHkqq1PWco