How to run E85

[mred2nice]

Hey There Guys

Will just running E85 make anymore power? What do I have to change to be able to put E85 or 93 in at the pump?

Thanks,
Ed

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

E85 allows more timing, or timing to be advanced, due to it burning cooler and having a higher resistance to burn. E85 will always make a high performance engine make more power BUT it makes the biggest difference on high hp builds. So if you're just bolt ons, then it's probably not worth it, but if you're running tons of boost and/or a cam then E85 can gain you 70+ rwhp.

[STUNNAH]

Originally Posted by mred2nice

Hey There Guys

Will just running E85 make anymore power? What do I have to change to be able to put E85 or 93 in at the pump?

Thanks,
Ed

The answer to your 1st question is yes...To run E85 or 93 your fueling system must be upgrade a flex fuel sensor, larger injector's, and either a Boost Assist Pump or alternative fueling as E85 requires a 30% increase in fuel...

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

E85 allows more timing, or timing to be advanced, due to it burning cooler and having a higher resistance to burn. E85 will always make a high performance engine make more power BUT it makes the biggest difference on high hp builds. So if you're just bolt ons, then it's probably not worth it, but if you're running tons of boost and/or a cam then E85 can gain you 70+ rwhp.

Everything above is correct...The only thing that I would disagree with is limiting the value of E85 to high HP builds...E85 has qualities that attract different people depending on the purpose of it's use...Some want a slight HP increase and better mileage...For me I only have a basic stage 1 kit, but E85 would gain me 40 to 50 rwhp with the option of running a mix of 93 without having to be concerned of an exact mix as the system adjusts accordingly to the amount of ethanol that it reads...So for someone like me that has no desire to cam or make any major modifications to my car, E85 would be the best option to meet my performance desire, and I will have spent less money to achieve a respectable rwhp increase compared to having headers, full exhaust system and/or any engine mods...It's very important to set a target goal and build your car accordingly...

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by STUNNAH

Everything above is correct...The only thing that I would disagree with is limiting the value of E85 to high HP builds...E85 has qualities that attract different people depending on the purpose of it's use...Some want a slight HP increase and better mileage...For me I only have a basic stage 1 kit, but E85 would gain me 40 to 50 rwhp with the option of running a mix of 93 without having to be concerned of an exact mix as the system adjusts accordingly to the amount of ethanol that it reads...So for someone like me that has no desire to cam or make any major modifications to my car, E85 would be the best option to meet my performance desire, and I will have spent less money to achieve a respectable rwhp increase compared to having headers, full exhaust system and/or any engine mods...It's very important to set a target goal and build your car accordingly...

Well, I didn't limit it, sure it may give you another 40 rwhp, I said that E85 is beneficial in all high performance engines (Which the LSA is even in stock form) but it makes the biggest difference in hotter builds. If E85 went more mainstream, it would be cool if they made performance cars that ran off of E85 from the factory.

[mred2nice]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Where is the best place to find the required items? Is there anyone selling everything in a kit?

Thanks,
Ed

[blake-b]

I skimmed the postings and didn't see it, but your tune will also have to be adjusted to make use of it.

Here is a kit:
https://www.dedicatedmotorsports.com...t_p/zl1ffk.htm
Buying that kit gets the support of one of the best LSx tuners there is -Dave Steck.

The kit just gives the sensor, wiring, fittings, etc. If you do need the auxilliary stuff (injectors, pump, filter) here that stuff is:
https://www.dedicatedmotorsports.com/category_s/361.htm

[KaBoom1701]

Originally Posted by blake-b

I skimmed the postings and didn't see it, but your tune will also have to be adjusted to make use of it.

Here is a kit:
https://www.dedicatedmotorsports.com...t_p/zl1ffk.htm
Buying that kit gets the support of one of the best LSx tuners there is -Dave Steck.

The kit just gives the sensor, wiring, fittings, etc. If you do need the auxilliary stuff (injectors, pump, filter) here that stuff is:
https://www.dedicatedmotorsports.com/category_s/361.htm

Good info. Thx for the links.

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Your also going to need injectors and more fueling. Expect to sink about 3 grand to do it right. The flex fuel sensor injector combo is, 1200-1900, and you will need the fuel pump system or boosted pump. The aux pump is 1200.
So parts wise your 2400 to 3100 in parts right off the gate. Figure another 500 or so in tuning.
The system as it sits stock, does not have enough injector, nor pump to run a decent percentage of E85.

[KaBoom1701]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

Your also going to need injectors and more fueling. Expect to sink about 3 grand to do it right. The flex fuel sensor injector combo is, 1200-1900, and you will need the fuel pump system or boosted pump. The aux pump is 1200.
So parts wise your 2400 to 3100 in parts right off the gate. Figure another 500 or so in tuning.
The system as it sits stock, does not have enough injector, nor pump to run a decent percentage of E85.

Been watching this E85 for a while....wondering how much cooler the LSA will run with this upgrade...is it worth it with my current build...

[STUNNAH]

Originally Posted by KaBoom1701

Been watching this E85 for a while....wondering how much cooler the LSA will run with this upgrade...is it worth it with my current build...

This is a valid point...With the simple mods I have I'm not concerned with any additional cooling mods...With a more detailed build this has to be a part of the equation, as well as, the intended purpose of the car, drag, track racing, etc... at what point would one need to consider upgrading the intercooler and/or other cooling options such as adding Meth...And that is when the price might out weigh the desire...

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Originally Posted by KaBoom1701

Been watching this E85 for a while....wondering how much cooler the LSA will run with this upgrade...is it worth it with my current build...

One issue is it burns cooler at the combustion chamber, but 0 difference in IAT2 temps which pulls the timing. That has to be compensated in the tune to keep the timing advance in check otherwise it will pull timing based on IAT2 regardless of the much cooler burning E85.

What bothers me is if the percentage of E85 drops from a larger percentage of regular fuel, how is the timing pull compensated. At the track not a lot of E85 is on hand, so it will be diluted with a refill, or top off. Is it possible to base the timing advance curve, and total advance numbers based off of E85 content %? The timing pull temperature would also need to decrease back towards the stock setting. Is that based on the % as well?

If not I would stick with a easily avail fuel if your road coursing.

[STUNNAH]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Well, I didn't limit it, sure it may give you another 40 rwhp, I said that E85 is beneficial in all high performance engines (Which the LSA is even in stock form) but it makes the biggest difference in hotter builds. If E85 went more mainstream, it would be cool if they made performance cars that ran off of E85 from the factory.

In a sense you did "biggest difference in hotter builds" is not an absolute...Therefore, that statement can be misleading...If the consumers make it known that they want E85 as an option in sports/performance cars, there will be a manufacture that will make it available...Some people are willing to spend thousands of dollars to cut a 10th of a second off a 1/4 mile run...Others buy flex fuel vehicles off the lot and benefit in that manner with increased mileage and lower fuel cost...So E85 offers a number of benefits...My good friend...

[blake-b]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

One issue is it burns cooler at the combustion chamber, but 0 difference in IAT2 temps which pulls the timing. That has to be compensated in the tune to keep the timing advance in check otherwise it will pull timing based on IAT2 regardless of the much cooler burning E85.

What bothers me is if the percentage of E85 drops from a larger percentage of regular fuel, how is the timing pull compensated. At the track not a lot of E85 is on hand, so it will be diluted with a refill, or top off. Is it possible to base the timing advance curve, and total advance numbers based off of E85 content %? The timing pull temperature would also need to decrease back towards the stock setting. Is that based on the % as well?

If not I would stick with a easily avail fuel if your road coursing.

If I understand what you're seeking, enabling the flex fuel capabilities in the ECU takes care of the timing for you instantly and on the fly based on what the sensor reports the alcohol percentage to be. Many tuners have found no difference in power between E70 and E85.

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Originally Posted by blake-b

If I understand what you're seeking, enabling the flex fuel capabilities in the ECU takes care of the timing for you instantly and on the fly based on what the sensor reports the alcohol percentage to be. Many tuners have found no difference in power between E70 and E85.

To clairfy it not just the timing, but IAT2 limitations as well.

Not so much a difference between E85 to E70. In some states E85 availability is sparce. So it could be E85 followed by regular 91. Most road course tracks do not have E85.

My understanding to take advantage of the combustion cooling effect from E85 that the temperature ceiling of IAT2 should be raised to a higher limit due to the fact that E85 has 0 effect on IAT2 temps. You could run cooler in combustion, but still hit the IAT2 timing pull temps at stock temp limit settings.

If this is a hard programmed point and you need to fill up at the track with regular fuel, it could be a major problem pushing the car bard for 20 minutes at a time. The addition of regular fuel and a raised IAT2 limit is going to be a real bad thing. If it (IAT2) timing pull tracks between stock and a full E85% then it could work for the road course guys.