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Old 11-21-2011, 10:39 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by tooslow View Post
Don't worry, I have nothing to backpedal about. Yes, some people will get a ZL1 at MSRP. Some people will pay an ADM. Some people will say they are getting/got a ZL1 at MSRP when they didn't. Some who say they are getting one, won't. IMO, you're living in some polyannaish world if you believe otherwise.

PM me if you want to continue debating my opinions.
PM's are usually reserved for friends, I don't think we have reached that threshold, don't you agree? WOW. Polyannish?. That's a good one, I think your thoughts are more seated in the unreasonabe or pesomistic world. I call your approach to debate "the mirror effect". I have seen it hundreds of times before. Nice try. Go read your previous doom and gloom posts about MSRP. Your fundamental flaw is that you keep changing your rhetoric as your posts proceed. Therefore, you change your position, your point, your story, in an attempt to save face. Oh, ok, yeah I will PM you and make this disapear, right? Look, it's all good. It's ok to go away, you just don't have to be mad about it....
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:54 PM   #674
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
PM's are usually reserved for friends, I don't think we have reached that threshold, don't you agree? WOW. Polyannish?. That's a good one, I think your thoughts are more seated in the unreasonabe or pesomistic world. I call your approach to debate "the mirror effect". I have seen it hundreds of times before. Nice try. Go read your previous doom and gloom posts about MSRP. Your fundamental flaw is that you keep changing your rhetoric as your posts proceed. Therefore, you change your position, your point, your story, in an attempt to save face. Oh, ok, yeah I will PM you and make this disapear, right? Look, it's all good. It's ok to go away, you just don't have to be mad about it....
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:08 AM   #675
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The camaro team has proven that the launch control feature that comes standard (not a purchasable option) on the MY 12 ZL1 camaro DOES indeed function to get the high horsepower numbers to the pavement without little to no wheel spin coming off the line.

Chevy on the other hand has already proven at least by video that the ZL1 with all respect won't have much of a traction/hookup issue if any at all.
I would completely agree after watching the GM videos, BUT then GM went and negated all that by announcing 12.0 with a ROLLING start.
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:31 AM   #676
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Originally Posted by Blackhawk021 View Post
WOW, find another dealer, there are tons of them out there that are at MSRP.
I can't believe it would be that easy, wouldn't every one just buy from those dealers and the other dealers wouldn't Jack the price way up.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:50 AM   #677
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I will tell you this, I have spent a lot of time in south florida looking for a good dealer, all but one of those delears told me they were going to mark the car up. The one that gave me MSRP(signed by general sales manager) did it for only two people and he is getting four. The other two will be marked up. Just saying,, prolly not tons of them.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:47 PM   #678
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Guys and gals...that is a bargain.
Actually, that is "marketing".

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Old 11-23-2011, 12:49 PM   #679
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Originally Posted by NYCSRTATE View Post
Considering Jeep is asking $64k + tax for there SRT8 and $55k + tax for there 300 SRT8 this ZL1 at MSRP may be the deal of a lifetime!

BTW Jeep has lost there fu*king minds $64k for a Jeep get a grip.

Dont get me started on Chrysler, damn company is begging to fail again.

Now the quest begins to find a dealer in the north east to get a ZL1 at MSRP or invoice. I may have to do what ive done with most of my other vehicles, buy them from the mid west seems there are more respectable dealers there.
Pretty confident you can buy the new 2012 SRT-8 300 for about 10k off the 55k prices if you wait another 2-3 months. At the 45k level it's a better deal overall than a ZL1 at 55k imo.
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:11 PM   #680
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Pretty confident you can buy the new 2012 SRT-8 300 for about 10k off the 55k prices if you wait another 2-3 months. At the 45k level it's a better deal overall than a ZL1 at 55k imo.
At $45k it may be a deal but at $55k there out of there damn minds, time will tell these Chrysler dealers think there sitting on gold they have priced these things way to high IMHO.
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:15 PM   #681
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The Folly of Price Expectations in So. Cal.

Hello everyone.....

I've been waiting to see how this was all going to fall out....Just like the rest of you, I've been anxiously hopeful about our new super-Camaro. I planned on a new car for the last 18 months or so....and when I heard about GM's plans for the ZL1 I knew I wanted one. I've been pretty pampered for the last 7 yrs in a luxo-SUV (aka CUV) and although it performs well for what it is, it's still SUV-like, and no matter how hard or fast I drive it, it's not a sports car.

So in planning for my 4th Camaro, I figured with the expected $50K+ price, as long as it was someplace south of $60K after tax/lic/options/gas-guzzler/etc. I'd be okay with it and have a car I really want to drive and one that suits my driving style better. This is where things start to go wrong...reality has a way of making you wake up and smell the 91 Octane.

Background: I had sort of an "in" at one of the local dealers when I bought my '98 Red SS (still my favorite car - anyone that walks into my office can see that), so I was able to order it for $200 over invoice. At that time, considered a pretty good deal but I've always thought as long as allocations weren't an issue, any dealer should be happy to do 20 minutes of paperwork for a couple hundred bucks plus what they make on the back end (hold-out credit, etc.). I didn't mind waiting 7 weeks for the exact car I wanted...and I ended up a blissful driver for 6 years.

Flash forward to 4th Qtr 2011 - once dealer allocations were known, I first checked the dealer where I still have an "in" (for what good that did - none) and then started checking all of the dealers within 100 miles of my area. Damn, that was enlightening...something that I expected though given the production run of 5,000 or so the first year.

What I found out was that due to the limited allocation to dealers - some dealers aren't even getting one - EVERY dealer I spoke with is putting a premium on top of MSRP. It ranges from ONLY $5K to as high as $15K. This is a hard pill to swallow for someone like me who has never even paid MSRP (or close to it) for any new vehicle, and I've been buying new cars since 1974 (okay, I know I just gave up my age). It's a point of pride with me, that is, not getting screwed for some material object that I could really well do without. It ends up being exactly what any salesman will tell you: "Well, how badly do you want it?" Turns out for me, not that badly, especially when I can just wait another 8 months and get a '13 model without getting totally screwed. But who really wants to wait and watch everyone else enjoying these cars? It's a classical dilemma...

I even checked one of the high-volume dealers where I practically bought a Cyber-Gray fully-loaded 3LZ Z06 from last year, when GM was going through it's problems and the $83K+ stickered car could have been mine for $71K; it was a great deal but I didn't pull the trigger and now I know I should have since those deals on 'vettes just aren't around now. The same fleet sales mgr told me he had an allocation of 5 ZL1s and only 1 of them was spoken for at $5K over MSRP.

I'm now exploring my alternatives since I've made up mind that my beloved Infiniti FX45 has to go in favor of the sports car I simply need to drive. The logical choice for me is a CTS-V coupe. The '12 models are on the lots, and I've already been able to secure a $4K discount off sticker through my GM supplier pricing deal. I've driven all the models, sedan, coupe & wagon, and I really am impressed with all of them. Yes, it's a pricier alternative and not the value of a ZL1 by any measure, but dammit I just can't get myself to pay a cent over MSRP for anything...especially in an environment where the economy is suffering and especially since I'm just a regular working stiff that pays bills like anyone else (not bucks-up like some people). I already place a higher priority on what I drive than most of my same-income-level peers, so I at least gotta buy smartly.

The high points (so it doesn't sounds like just a complaint session) - the Cadillac is a marvelous vehicle...the same engine as the ZL1, same 1.9 liter supercharger, same magnetorheological suspension (3rd gen), much more luxurious interior (at least as nice as my Infiniti), and the big plus for a spoiled person like me: a GPS Nav system that integrates everything and is better than what I'm used to...plus, at the push of a button, it goes up and down and disappears when you don't want it! Also, when the extra cash is available, easy to pump up the volume on that car....I have a Callaway shop a stone's throw from me....and you know what happens in the aftermarket when cars like this are out...Or, I could take my vacation in Texas while Hennessey does some upgrades for me....easy to get mid-600 HP from the car even with basic tuning and a couple of bolt-ons.
There's my luxury sports car that can keep up with the best of them. Have you seen the lap time for the CTS-V (sedan and coupe almost identical) at the 'ring?

All the CTS-V series cars start at $63,215...mine ends up being about $73K after options (boy those Recaro seats are expensive, but nice) but with my discount it's about $69K. I really wanted the ZL1 (can't you tell by my handle? I even made it my email address)...but I don't want to wait a year and the extra $ for the luxury satisfies both needs. It's not an issue of money, it's a matter of principle. I will only pay more than MSRP when (not if) I have so much money it doesn't matter.

LONG story....sorry....I tend to write stream of consciousness....and it's Thanksgiving and I haven't started stuffing my face yet....

Cheers to all of you on this forum....you're all like brothers to me with the same love for Camaros....however, it looks like I may end up joining the Cadillac CTS-V forum now.

Can ANY of you out there relate to anything I've said here? Or am I just an A-hole with a stupid problem that doesn't matter? C'mon, I can take it...I know everyone can't agree with me....
By the way, just got notice that I'm confirmed for the Cadillac V-Series "Performance Lab" at Auto Club speedway in December. Two drivers from Team Cadillac will be teaching class room and on-track instruction for 5 hours....I'll get to drive the 6-speed coupe on the track and get the best advice from pro drivers....now THAT'S a test-drive!

Later, bro's....(and ladies - if any),

Zed El One
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Old 11-24-2011, 10:13 PM   #682
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Originally Posted by Zed El One View Post
Can ANY of you out there relate to anything I've said here? Or am I just an A-hole with a stupid problem that doesn't matter? C'mon, I can take it...I know everyone can't agree with me....
I don't think you've looked hard enough for a deal at MSRP... they are out there, especially if you want a vacation in Texas. They can also be drop shipped to you. But I do understand your deliema. My dealer has a 2011 Z06/07 w/ 600 miles on it for $72 that is VERY tempting right now but I choose to wait because it's the Camaro I REALLY want. As you said yourself you don't mind waiting to get exactly what you want. It will be there but you'll just have to be patient.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:27 AM   #683
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For all those still looking for a signed deal at MSRP, before heading to the dealership you might want to pick up this........

Name:  vaseline_20368g_20l_profile.gif
Views: 601
Size:  21.9 KB and one of these..... Name:  Trojan-Condoms.gif
Views: 607
Size:  18.0 KB Before this... Name:  Bent over the desk.jpg
Views: 616
Size:  6.0 KB

Hopefully it will make the experience a little less painful. You would think that the dealerships asking the 5-20K markup would offer these as complimentary, much the same as a cup of coffee is in any other car purchase experience?
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:58 AM   #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed El One View Post
Hello everyone.....
............
...........
.......
Can ANY of you out there relate to anything I've said here? Or am I just an A-hole with a stupid problem that doesn't matter? C'mon, I can take it...I know everyone can't agree with me....
Zed El One
I think you're right on the money, I was told several months back that if anyone in Toronto (Ontario) wanted one of these these they'd better be prepared to pay about $80, and I live 1/2hr. away from the Oshawa plant; but I have my moments perhaps I"m an a-hole too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matster View Post
For all those still looking for a signed deal at MSRP, before heading to the dealership you might want to pick up this........

Attachment 309785 and one of these..... Attachment 309786 Before this... Attachment 309787

Hopefully it will make the experience a little less painful. You would think that the dealerships asking the 5-20K markup would offer these as complimentary, much the same as a cup of coffee is in any other car purchase experience?

Hey Matt: I think it's only us Canadians that have this demented straight up sense of humour. My account has been suspended numerous times already because of my straight talk regarding this vehicle.
Straight talk is considered negative ZL1 bashing.
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:24 PM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
I don't think you've looked hard enough for a deal at MSRP... they are out there, especially if you want a vacation in Texas. They can also be drop shipped to you. But I do understand your deliema. My dealer has a 2011 Z06/07 w/ 600 miles on it for $72 that is VERY tempting right now but I choose to wait because it's the Camaro I REALLY want. As you said yourself you don't mind waiting to get exactly what you want. It will be there but you'll just have to be patient.
MLee, thanks for the tip....but so far I have not been able to find any dealer willing to go to MSRP. I have never paid MSRP for any new car so I would have to be without any alternatives to pay sticker for any car (unless, as I said, money was not an issue for me). Personally, driving a great car and getting a good deal go hand in hand...I don't quite enjoy it as much if I am feeling the effects of being treated like the subordinate cell-mate in a max-security prison...if ya know what I mean - Matster put it very well. I also feel I should be able to get the deal I want reasonably close to where I live in Southern California...the density of dealerships between San Diego and Los Angeles is amazing....I should not have to go to a different state to buy a production vehicle. So...you're right - I either wait for next year or I just don't buy a ZL1 in this environment of price gouging. I'm not blaming the dealers, really...it's simply supply and demand economics....If I owned a dealership and knew I could get a premium price for 6 to 8 months before availability reduced demand, I probably would. Nobody is forcing us to buy anything...it's our choice.

As far as vacationing in Texas....that would only happen if I already had my ZL1 and I also had the extra bucks needed to pay for Hennessey's upgrades...they are not cheap! As an incurable gear head, I can't ever leave well enough alone, even if the car is already pretty snappy (like everyone else on this forum).

Cheers
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:29 PM   #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matster View Post
For all those still looking for a signed deal at MSRP, before heading to the dealership you might want to pick up this........

Attachment 309785 and one of these..... Attachment 309786 Before this... Attachment 309787

Hopefully it will make the experience a little less painful. You would think that the dealerships asking the 5-20K markup would offer these as complimentary, much the same as a cup of coffee is in any other car purchase experience?
Matster....both my girlfriend and I got a good laugh when we read this...funny AND true....

Someone at my work place asked me why the dealers do this on new model cars....(as if they're afraid of losing customer loyalty). My answer: Because they CAN! Just like Bubba at the max-security prison....LOL
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