minimum hp gains from gmpp headers/A.I./catback? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

s.norman · 11-05-2008, 12:25 AM

what would be the minimum hp gains from gmpp additions? does the car have to be tuned after? will the dealership tune the car if necessary?

headpunter · 11-05-2008, 01:29 AM

35hp maybe without a tune

Cessna510 · 11-05-2008, 03:54 AM

I'm also curious about this,I'd love to get my camaro from the dealership with just shy of 500hp and it still be under warranty.

383ss · 11-05-2008, 06:40 AM

I'd say with about 99% certainty a tune will NOT be required.

the shorties will be worth 10hp MAX. CAI may be more like 15 and the catback probably 5.

Id say 25 to 35 to give you around 450hp stock

I can't imagine any problems running high 12's with a good driver with these mods on an average day.

*radz28* · 11-05-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 383ss

I'd say with about 99% certainty a tune will NOT be required.

the shorties will be worth 10hp MAX. CAI may be more like 15 and the catback probably 5.

Id say 25 to 35 to give you around 450hp stock

I can't imagine any problems running high 12's with a good driver with these mods on an average day.

Rekt · 11-05-2008, 09:52 AM

25 hp

Mblock66 · 11-05-2008, 09:57 AM

I have working the tuning industry (mostly subarus) and you need to be careful withyour predictions. The cars brain is the ECU and it tells the car exactly how to run with what it knows. No there is some level of "learning" in these ECUs but not very much when you add mods like these.

We have seen the addition of a Subaru Performance Parts Intake to a stock application and the car LOST 7hp. After the tune it was up 3hp (this is to the wheels). The stock ECU couldn't understand the new MAF readings and all the additional air so it actually performed worse until tuned.

As for cat backs there is really nothing to tune there but in todays cars there is really not much of a gain there since the stock systems are pretty unrestrictive. Maybe 5 hp TOPS. These are mostly for sound.

Now for headers, shorties will do little for a car tuned for them let alone untuned. The real gain in headers is in long tubes (preferably without cats or hi flow cats). This is where the gains are. Shorties slapped on there with no tune will result in very very little. Maybe another 5.

So you may actually net nothing by adding all of these parts without a tune. And no GM will not be tuning your car lol. If you decide to put them on to "get extra warrentied performance" you probably did nothing but make the exhaust note cooler and empty your wallet. Now if you take that car and get it tuned for the mods, it will get you some better gains but now your warrenty will not be honored and they do have ways to detect if you have flashed the ECU.

I am telling you this from first hand experience, never trust a dyno plot of a part from an actual manufaturer. Subaru provides a dyno plot of their intake on an otherwise stock car with 11hp gain. We did the exact same test on the same car and got -7hp. You can make a dyno look anyway you want it is simple drag and drop lol. Only trust dynos from 3rd party tests and real world applications.

My advice. If you are going to mod....go aftermarket and do it right and cheaper. But understand you pay to play. Once you go this route you need to accept that you may get voided on powertrain when you have an issue. It is just the risk you take.

Either stay stock and stay happy or deal with the problems out of pocket if you decide to mod....

96CAMaro · 11-05-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 383ss

I'd say with about 99% certainty a tune will NOT be required.

the shorties will be worth 10hp MAX. CAI may be more like 15 and the catback probably 5.

Id say 25 to 35 to give you around 450hp stock

I can't imagine any problems running high 12's with a good driver with these mods on an average day.

Interesting, I thought this car, once broken in, would run high 12's all day with an average driver, a nearly empty tank of gas, and a low humidity day.

My predictions: shorties = 10-15hp, CAI = 15hp, catback = 5-10hp for a net gain of 30-40hp netting 452-462hp (6M), 430-440hp (A6).

Wm Holden · 11-05-2008, 05:52 PM

all day long.....

logan1080 · 11-05-2008, 05:56 PM

will long tube headers fit in the car?

BowtieGuy · 11-05-2008, 06:00 PM

A tune is not required but for optimum gains it is. As for dealer tuning, there are some instances when GMPP parts are applied by the dealer (only way to insure warranty) and include a canned reflash for the ECM to accept and calibrate the new modifications. This was the case with the Cobalt SS/SC. I don't know if this will also be available for the Camaro, but since they are GM parts and dealer installed there is a very real possiblity of a reflash option or even being included.

BowtieGuy · 11-05-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan1080

will long tube headers fit in the car?

Once they are produced for the car, yes. It will be the aftermarket's responsibility to route the pipes to fit.

headpunter · 11-05-2008, 06:26 PM

a good tune would make the gains from those bolt-ons even more noticeable

383ss · 11-05-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96CAMaro

Interesting, I thought this car, once broken in, would run high 12's all day with an average driver, a nearly empty tank of gas, and a low humidity day.

My predictions: shorties = 10-15hp, CAI = 15hp, catback = 5-10hp for a net gain of 30-40hp netting 452-462hp (6M), 430-440hp (A6).

I was being conservative. Also for an average day I'm saying a DA of about 2000 and a descent track.

with great track/weather and driver, I'm sure mid 12's wouldn't be a problem.

11-05-2008, 12:25 AM	#1
s.norman Drives: not worth it Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: new jersey Posts: 126	minimum hp gains from gmpp headers/A.I./catback? what would be the minimum hp gains from gmpp additions? does the car have to be tuned after? will the dealership tune the car if necessary?

11-05-2008, 01:29 AM	#2
headpunter Not That sad..considering Drives: Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: the part of washington the capital forgot about. Posts: 3,747 View My Garage	35hp maybe without a tune __________________ Stop Whinging

11-05-2008, 03:54 AM	#3
Cessna510 Gm loyalist Drives: 04 z71 tahoe\99 SS m6 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baxter Springs Ks Posts: 362	I'm also curious about this,I'd love to get my camaro from the dealership with just shy of 500hp and it still be under warranty. __________________

11-05-2008, 05:52 PM	#9
Wm Holden Yes, that's my real name. Drives: 2005 LS2 600hp GTO Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ventura, ca. Posts: 770	all day long..... __________________ Magnuson 112HH supercharger at 7.5 psi (Virtual 9.0 liter) 600hp 1 of 2 torrid/red int /A4/05 555r 275/40/R17's Nitto Extreme Drags 1.7 60 ft Car runs high 11's No other mods. I got the first 112HH Magnuson blower ported for a GTO. Now it appears it was also one of the last.... http://www.ribbonprinting.com http://www.personalizedawarenessribbons.com

11-05-2008, 06:00 PM	#11
BowtieGuy Enlightened Drives: Nothing Currently Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,285	A tune is not required but for optimum gains it is. As for dealer tuning, there are some instances when GMPP parts are applied by the dealer (only way to insure warranty) and include a canned reflash for the ECM to accept and calibrate the new modifications. This was the case with the Cobalt SS/SC. I don't know if this will also be available for the Camaro, but since they are GM parts and dealer installed there is a very real possiblity of a reflash option or even being included. __________________ If you believe it is your right to speak freely no matter the content, relevance, or intelligence of statement, then it is my duty to the powers that be to set you straight. People have to talk about something just to keep their voice boxes in working order. So they'll have good voice boxes in case there's ever anything really meaningful to say. Kurt Vonnegut

11-05-2008, 06:40 AM	#4
383ss Drives: 1985 IROC, 2011 Camaro Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lemont, IL Posts: 284	I'd say with about 99% certainty a tune will NOT be required. the shorties will be worth 10hp MAX. CAI may be more like 15 and the catback probably 5. Id say 25 to 35 to give you around 450hp stock I can't imagine any problems running high 12's with a good driver with these mods on an average day.

11-05-2008, 09:52 AM	#6
Rekt Drives: Z34 370Z Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 149	25 hp

11-05-2008, 09:57 AM	#7
Mblock66 Drives: 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 312	I have working the tuning industry (mostly subarus) and you need to be careful withyour predictions. The cars brain is the ECU and it tells the car exactly how to run with what it knows. No there is some level of "learning" in these ECUs but not very much when you add mods like these. We have seen the addition of a Subaru Performance Parts Intake to a stock application and the car LOST 7hp. After the tune it was up 3hp (this is to the wheels). The stock ECU couldn't understand the new MAF readings and all the additional air so it actually performed worse until tuned. As for cat backs there is really nothing to tune there but in todays cars there is really not much of a gain there since the stock systems are pretty unrestrictive. Maybe 5 hp TOPS. These are mostly for sound. Now for headers, shorties will do little for a car tuned for them let alone untuned. The real gain in headers is in long tubes (preferably without cats or hi flow cats). This is where the gains are. Shorties slapped on there with no tune will result in very very little. Maybe another 5. So you may actually net nothing by adding all of these parts without a tune. And no GM will not be tuning your car lol. If you decide to put them on to "get extra warrentied performance" you probably did nothing but make the exhaust note cooler and empty your wallet. Now if you take that car and get it tuned for the mods, it will get you some better gains but now your warrenty will not be honored and they do have ways to detect if you have flashed the ECU. I am telling you this from first hand experience, never trust a dyno plot of a part from an actual manufaturer. Subaru provides a dyno plot of their intake on an otherwise stock car with 11hp gain. We did the exact same test on the same car and got -7hp. You can make a dyno look anyway you want it is simple drag and drop lol. Only trust dynos from 3rd party tests and real world applications. My advice. If you are going to mod....go aftermarket and do it right and cheaper. But understand you pay to play. Once you go this route you need to accept that you may get voided on powertrain when you have an issue. It is just the risk you take. Either stay stock and stay happy or deal with the problems out of pocket if you decide to mod....

11-05-2008, 05:56 PM	#10
logan1080 Drives: 2003 Crew Cab Duramax Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: canada Posts: 693 View My Garage	will long tube headers fit in the car?

11-05-2008, 06:26 PM	#13
headpunter Not That sad..considering Drives: Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: the part of washington the capital forgot about. Posts: 3,747 View My Garage	a good tune would make the gains from those bolt-ons even more noticeable __________________ Stop Whinging

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