Ticking noise from motor after cam swap

[rokinv8]

Just did a cam swap about 2k miles ago with a btr stage 2 in my 2012 SS. Upgraded springs, lifters (LS7), pushrods (measured for 7.375”), rocker arm trunion upgrade, and all the supporting mods. I have developed a ticking noise in my engine and need to figure out if it is a lifter or something else. In the process of pulling valve covers now. One thing to note is that i removed the insulation cover on top of the manifold but i wouldnt think that would make much difference. Any opinions based on the videos?

https://youtu.be/Uq51HkkNj-I

https://youtu.be/XOohPOLJo1Q

[christianchevell]

Insulation cover deflects the natural typewriter sound of the LS engine down to the ground more quieting it, also higher lift cams make more noise and headers magnify it much more. Yours does though sound a little loud and I would want to check things out under the valve covers, hopefully you installed new baskets with the lifters or who ever did the work, doubtful a lifter is failing already if you soaked then good in oil.


My engines ticking goes down when its warmer and thermal expansion takes up some slack in the preload with things tighter but yours may be sounding louder because of the garage reflecting the sound also as it reflects off surfaces. So only you know the sound of your engine and if it has changed......Generally you should have done lots of research before doing the cam install if done yourself, there used to be terrible BS info on the preload and how to measure things on here.

Many overly tightened their lifters preload eating their cams eventually due to the increased pressure and lack of plunger free travel..in effect maybe bottoming out the lifters interior with the pushrod back when cam installs were first being done by DIY guys on here years ago. I did some detailed posts on here to try to teach people, and frankly mines installed by the best in the NW Tommy Wong...I just have a car port and a storage shed full of crap and tools.

ATTENTION: the area of preload basically you should have used IMO after reaching zero lash appropriately is from .045 to .060 area as is stock IMO the tighter the lash the louder the tick, and many did way over lash as its a strong engine and will run way tight and then down the road eat the cam...something you could not do so much on a good old flat tappet cam....

I am a old motorhead, this is my second gen 5, been here since 2010 ish… I insist on breaking in the roller cam with my Driven racing BR30 for 20-30 minutes because I am smart enough to cover my arse…..and its why not ...it worked flawless for decades on flat tappet breaking things in and now its much higher lift ..so what if its a roller that's not new tech...…….
Your engine cover does make a big difference in noise level that why the heat trap is there stock. A smart installer does not lash tighter on a LS or its going to tick more and sure be tighter for higher revs but less worry about valve float means more pressure and more wear worries..... because if its not one thing its another.....death taxes etc....LOL Many on here used to swear they had to lash to a LS7 spec and had noisy typewriters..as its .070 and that's it, over that and your way into waiting for the over preloaded lifter to be impaled on the pushrod smacking the crap out of the little plunger springs into the interior of the lifter with it not being so forgiving eventually eating the cam, bending pushrods, breaking lifters, breaking their rollers or causing them to wear wrong,( let alone the wrong oil dragging a roller to death with it not being able to roll or the preload making it too hard to turn..we use 5w30 that's what the oiling system is made for and why I use a high volume pump with Driven racing ls30 oil).


SO just some thoughts , eating my eggs and waffles, good luck to you. As you know preload is lifter specific with aftermarket and pushrods need to be measured but usually the vendor knows what works best and its all in the base circle being smaller due to higher cam lobes thus you have to have a different pushrod length versus stock. Thus most need longer than stock pushrods and the difference between the base circles of stock versus the aftermarket cam is where you can fairly well figure the difference in pushrod you will need...say the base circle is .050 smaller well that's the whole circumference and you only need .025 longer as you don't have the lifter on two sides of base circle at one time it rides on a lobe that is only machined in .025 closer to the center …...not .050..another mistake guys made...……..


Good Luck. I did not join this site right away but rather read it with lots of people back them being it was so popular lots of flaming went on, lots of stupid you could not fix, and lots of heavy handed scrutiny from mods...…….. got slapped a couple times myself.

[InFiD3ViL]

Did you ever figure this out?

That does not sound like your typical LS tick.

[Russell James]

Was the oil pump off or messed with in the install? If so, was every precaution taken in using the correct o ring and not nicking it. Common to nick the o ring.

Once you start getting air in the oil, those bubbles will get caught in the lifters.

LS motors don't have to be noisy. Sloppy builds or choice of parts results in noisy valve trains. But very common to have a little noise. Mass production variation wonderfulness. If one were to bush the lifter bores to perfection, perfect the oil system, choose the right parts... you'd be surprised how quite an LS motor can be. It's all about keeping air out of the oil and lifters, and a cam that was engineering for quietness.

One trick to see if the oil is getting aerated is to idle the engine with the valve covers off. This can me messy, but with some splash shields and creativity can be done. Idling you want to watch the oil coming out of the pushrods rockers. Does it look full of air bubbles. Can also look at the dipstick while an engine is idling. Oil full of air bubbles/foaminess, your lifters will have tons of air in them.

Another trick to see if that o ring is sucking air...put some extra oil in it and raise the back of the car way up. That will submerge the o ring, and if all the sudden the noise clears up after a few minutes of idling...the o ring is the source of sucking air.

Also cut open your oil filter. To make sure nothing is making metal debris, such as a non centered oil pump tearing itself up.

If it was quiet on build, and now getting noisy... that's where I would start. First cut open the oil filter, make sure it's not full of metal debris. Then dig into is the oil getting aerated.

If the filter media is fine, oil not aerated, normal power...kinda a random typewriter sound.... lean more towards normal. Header leaks too will sound just like a bad lifter. Throw some new OE header/manifold gaskets on just to rule that out. Especially if non OE new gaskets were ever used.

[acammer]

That sounds pretty bad - definitely not your ordinary sewing machine noises you get with an aggressive valve-train. I would start by pulling both valve covers and having a close look at things - it wouldn't be the first time an aftermarket trunion has failed. I went with a bushed (vs. bearings) setup for this rear.

Let us know what you find.

[Juiced1]

So the car wasn't making this noise after the cam swap?? Is the header gasket seated right? A header leak can sound similar too, check to make sure the bolts didn't back out a bit.

[christianchevell]

Yes leaking header gasket can make ticking as the exhaust on headers really magnifies things, hopefully your using stock metal type gaskets.

[Witt51]

Originally Posted by Russell James

Was the oil pump off or messed with in the install? If so, was every precaution taken in using the correct o ring and not nicking it. Common to nick the o ring.

Once you start getting air in the oil, those bubbles will get caught in the lifters.

LS motors don't have to be noisy. Sloppy builds or choice of parts results in noisy valve trains. But very common to have a little noise. Mass production variation wonderfulness. If one were to bush the lifter bores to perfection, perfect the oil system, choose the right parts... you'd be surprised how quite an LS motor can be. It's all about keeping air out of the oil and lifters, and a cam that was engineering for quietness.

One trick to see if the oil is getting aerated is to idle the engine with the valve covers off. This can me messy, but with some splash shields and creativity can be done. Idling you want to watch the oil coming out of the pushrods rockers. Does it look full of air bubbles. Can also look at the dipstick while an engine is idling. Oil full of air bubbles/foaminess, your lifters will have tons of air in them.

Another trick to see if that o ring is sucking air...put some extra oil in it and raise the back of the car way up. That will submerge the o ring, and if all the sudden the noise clears up after a few minutes of idling...the o ring is the source of sucking air.

Also cut open your oil filter. To make sure nothing is making metal debris, such as a non centered oil pump tearing itself up.

If it was quiet on build, and now getting noisy... that's where I would start. First cut open the oil filter, make sure it's not full of metal debris. Then dig into is the oil getting aerated.

If the filter media is fine, oil not aerated, normal power...kinda a random typewriter sound.... lean more towards normal. Header leaks too will sound just like a bad lifter. Throw some new OE header/manifold gaskets on just to rule that out. Especially if non OE new gaskets were ever used.

Out of curiosity do you work at a shop or hobbyist? Ive learned more from your posts than any other source of info.

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[Russell James]

Originally Posted by Witt51

Out of curiosity do you work at a shop or hobbyist? Ive learned more from your posts than any other source of info.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Just a hobby, trial and error with my toys and asking a lot of questions of friends in high and low places. Being in MI too, there are speed shops everywhere that are a wealth of information. And if you spend a day or two in vendor row at Camarofest and LSFest, you would not believe the wealth of info vendors like JRE and Texas Speed are.

[rokinv8]

Sorry for the delayed reply and thanks for all of the feedback! I pulled the valve covers and everything checked out in the valvetrain components (pushrod length, bent pushrods, preload, trunions, no debris in the oil filter, no marks from rocker arms, rocker arm bolt torque, etc), every header bolt was tight also. I went to put it back together and noticed that the cylinder #2 exhaust rocker arm bolt was hard to get started. Turns out that the bolt was cross threaded in the head and it was hitting torque before the bolt was seated all the way. I pulled the bolt and covered up around the boss, tapped the hole, and everything cleared up...until last Friday. Drove the car to work and the ticking came back but not quite as bad. I pulled the valve cover this weekend and the bolt was still torqued properly. I did notice that the noise quiets down when the car warms up. Could this be a lifter getting pumped with oil as it warms up? Is there a good way to check the head gaskets? I didn't feel anything around them and all of the bolts were tight...used GM gaskets. Here is a video of it now...

https://youtu.be/30zbnftLmQk

[christianchevell]

The lifters will be noisier cold; the thermal expansion from warming up makes the clearances change and increases the preload often quieting down the typewriter sound. Sound reflects off objects and it is increased with headers and the stock engine cover deflects noise down. Yours does sound a little noisy but its very hard to judge on tape.....mine is noisier than my last built engine but is fine, do not know if your idle is set to 950 and if its hot there or what your preload is... and what the cam sounds like with its duration and LSA... SO its kind of up to you, and would say the .045 to .060 preload area is where you want to be with less being less noisy usually. Stiffer springs also make more noise also...

[Witt51]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

Insulation cover deflects the natural typewriter sound of the LS engine down to the ground more quieting it, also higher lift cams make more noise and headers magnify it much more. Yours does though sound a little loud and I would want to check things out under the valve covers, hopefully you installed new baskets with the lifters or who ever did the work, doubtful a lifter is failing already if you soaked then good in oil.


My engines ticking goes down when its warmer and thermal expansion takes up some slack in the preload with things tighter but yours may be sounding louder because of the garage reflecting the sound also as it reflects off surfaces. So only you know the sound of your engine and if it has changed......Generally you should have done lots of research before doing the cam install if done yourself, there used to be terrible BS info on the preload and how to measure things on here.

Many overly tightened their lifters preload eating their cams eventually due to the increased pressure and lack of plunger free travel..in effect maybe bottoming out the lifters interior with the pushrod back when cam installs were first being done by DIY guys on here years ago. I did some detailed posts on here to try to teach people, and frankly mines installed by the best in the NW Tommy Wong...I just have a car port and a storage shed full of crap and tools.

ATTENTION: the area of preload basically you should have used IMO after reaching zero lash appropriately is from .045 to .060 area as is stock IMO the tighter the lash the louder the tick, and many did way over lash as its a strong engine and will run way tight and then down the road eat the cam...something you could not do so much on a good old flat tappet cam....

I am a old motorhead, this is my second gen 5, been here since 2010 ish… I insist on breaking in the roller cam with my Driven racing BR30 for 20-30 minutes because I am smart enough to cover my arse…..and its why not ...it worked flawless for decades on flat tappet breaking things in and now its much higher lift ..so what if its a roller that's not new tech...…….
Your engine cover does make a big difference in noise level that why the heat trap is there stock. A smart installer does not lash tighter on a LS or its going to tick more and sure be tighter for higher revs but less worry about valve float means more pressure and more wear worries..... because if its not one thing its another.....death taxes etc....LOL Many on here used to swear they had to lash to a LS7 spec and had noisy typewriters..as its .070 and that's it, over that and your way into waiting for the over preloaded lifter to be impaled on the pushrod smacking the crap out of the little plunger springs into the interior of the lifter with it not being so forgiving eventually eating the cam, bending pushrods, breaking lifters, breaking their rollers or causing them to wear wrong,( let alone the wrong oil dragging a roller to death with it not being able to roll or the preload making it too hard to turn..we use 5w30 that's what the oiling system is made for and why I use a high volume pump with Driven racing ls30 oil).


SO just some thoughts , eating my eggs and waffles, good luck to you. As you know preload is lifter specific with aftermarket and pushrods need to be measured but usually the vendor knows what works best and its all in the base circle being smaller due to higher cam lobes thus you have to have a different pushrod length versus stock. Thus most need longer than stock pushrods and the difference between the base circles of stock versus the aftermarket cam is where you can fairly well figure the difference in pushrod you will need...say the base circle is .050 smaller well that's the whole circumference and you only need .025 longer as you don't have the lifter on two sides of base circle at one time it rides on a lobe that is only machined in .025 closer to the center …...not .050..another mistake guys made...……..


Good Luck. I did not join this site right away but rather read it with lots of people back them being it was so popular lots of flaming went on, lots of stupid you could not fix, and lots of heavy handed scrutiny from mods...…….. got slapped a couple times myself.

Question for you about base circle and pr length. If base circle is. 050 smaller and then go with 7.425 push rods. Now if you have . 030 off the heads how much would that change the pr length. I know you still need to measure so I'm not saying you can just do that math and your good.

I ask cause I talked to btr about this and they said 7.4 would work. I had comp lifters installed that I believe they were 815-16. Supposed to be same travel as Ls7. I found this when I pulled the heads off. I was using 7.4 pushrods.

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[christianchevell]

That's not a happy lifter there Witt..... you would add 1/2 the base circles decrease in size being .050 less large to make it .025 longer pushrod for the math because the pushrod for stock geometry has to increase in size on the one side of the cam it rides on.....then you decreased the clearance by shaving the deck...not so great for the heads longevity and not great for PTV clearance with out flycut pistons.... so you in effect are going the other way...and with .030 loss it about has the opposite effect so your back at the stock length or .005 less long IMO.....


So yes 7.4 should be right unless your stock pushrods were 7.375...…. good luck! And stock lifters would work...…. and of course have the same travel.... And yes not lashed right the engine will run overlashed with rollers way beyond what a non roller engine would take and turn over and run BTW...… Just stuff from a old hot rodder…. rollers are not new, engines made specifically for them mainstream...well that's basically whats so new this decade or so, all aluminum etc etc......

[Witt51]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

That's not a happy lifter there Witt..... you would add 1/2 the base circles decrease in size being .050 less large to make it .025 longer pushrod for the math because the pushrod for stock geometry has to increase in size on the one side of the cam it rides on.....then you decreased the clearance by shaving the deck...not so great for the heads longevity and not great for PTV clearance with out flycut pistons.... so you in effect are going the other way...and with .030 loss it about has the opposite effect so your back at the stock length or .005 less long IMO.....


So yes 7.4 should be right unless your stock pushrods were 7.375...…. good luck! And stock lifters would work...…. and of course have the same travel.... And yes not lashed right the engine will run overlashed with rollers way beyond what a non roller engine would take and turn over and run BTW...… Just stuff from a old hot rodder…. rollers are not new, engines made specifically for them mainstream...well that's basically whats so new this decade or so, all aluminum etc etc......

OK thanks. I didn't know if shaving heads would have same effect. I always assumed so and made sense to me but ive read differently and always made me scratch my head. I do have fly cut pistons so ptv is good. I have had some valves replaced so I actually measured each individualy and have a set of 7.4 and 7.375. My concern though is why that retainer popped out. I don't know if the comp lifters has less plunger travel and bottomed out or something else. I didn't over Rev at all or spin it to 6800 rpm.

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