10 hours of labor to install full LT system? - Page 8 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

skimms98 · 12-03-2012, 12:21 PM

Okay, after reading through all this I will maintain that there are always two sides to every story. I'm the arrogant asshole he talked to on the phone here at PAS. Clearly things were misunderstood, taken out of context and just plain quoted wrong. The 10 hour quote for the entire exhaust and longtubes was BECAUSE the customer insisted on an inferior quality brand that I knew would take longer than the 3-4 hrs that a Kook, ARH or comparable system would take to install. How do I know? We've been in that movie before. It was only after basically being insulted and berated through four different phone calls from this customer all stating " are you sure? so and so said this, and so and so said that" That I finally got irritated and said I didn't need the work. Truth be told when a customer shows themselves to be a possible problem and won't listen to reason on parts choices before the car even hits my door I am inclined to turn them and it away. We don't want any unhappy customers. The best way is to refer them to good parts. I wasn't even trying to sell them to him even though we're a dealer for both. I was only advising him to buy a good set for a nice car. Cheap junk is exactly that. If you read this entire thread you can see that most of the vendor and installers in this thread see the real story regardless of how it's being portrayed. We are a busy shop. We have been in business for over 15 years successfully. We have an excellent reputation for customer service that we work very hard to uphold. Installing ebay parts and hoping for the best is a lose/lose for everybody. It's why we chose not to do it. If it ruffled feathers, so be it. If it pushed someone to buy a better part for the car in the end regardless of where it was installed, even better. I'm an enthusiast like everyone else on here but I've also been in the high perf industry for 25 plus years and know how all of this stuff goes. Believe me I do. We, in the end, just want people happy with their cars. The way to do that is for them to make informed decisions on mods, regardless of where the parts are purchased or installed.
Once that information is dispersed and ignored? I wash my hands of it but felt the need to explain our stance here. Rarely is "cheap and good" ever in the same sentence accurate.

slickmetal · 12-03-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skimms98

Okay, after reading through all this I will maintain that there are always two sides to every story. I'm the arrogant asshole he talked to on the phone here at PAS. Clearly things were misunderstood, taken out of context and just plain quoted wrong. The 10 hour quote for the entire exhaust and longtubes was BECAUSE the customer insisted on an inferior quality brand that I knew would take longer than the 3-4 hrs that a Kook, ARH or comparable system would take to install. How do I know? We've been in that movie before. It was only after basically being insulted and berated through four different phone calls from this customer all stating " are you sure? so and so said this, and so and so said that" That I finally got irritated and said I didn't need the work. Truth be told when a customer shows themselves to be a possible problem and won't listen to reason on parts choices before the car even hits my door I am inclined to turn them and it away. We don't want any unhappy customers. The best way is to refer them to good parts. I wasn't even trying to sell them to him even though we're a dealer for both. I was only advising him to buy a good set for a nice car. Cheap junk is exactly that. If you read this entire thread you can see that most of the vendor and installers in this thread see the real story regardless of how it's being portrayed. We are a busy shop. We have been in business for over 15 years successfully. We have an excellent reputation for customer service that we work very hard to uphold. Installing ebay parts and hoping for the best is a lose/lose for everybody. It's why we chose not to do it. If it ruffled feathers, so be it. If it pushed someone to buy a better part for the car in the end regardless of where it was installed, even better. I'm an enthusiast like everyone else on here but I've also been in the high perf industry for 25 plus years and know how all of this stuff goes. Believe me I do. We, in the end, just want people happy with their cars. The way to do that is for them to make informed decisions on mods, regardless of where the parts are purchased or installed.
Once that information is dispersed and ignored? I wash my hands of it but felt the need to explain our stance here. Rarely is "cheap and good" ever in the same sentence accurate.

So the so-called headers that are going to take 10 hours to install, what brand are they? This information will not only be helpful to everyone on here, but also help us all see both sides of this old story - and then we can determine whom is guilty of bafoonery.

We all have seen such things on here...kinda like the "tail-lights" thread.

a.morblu · 12-03-2012, 01:41 PM

Had mine installed when I did my cam swap. Here is the labor invoice. I wonder what their cam swap labor would run you...

Camper · 12-03-2012, 01:55 PM

it is maybe 4 hours on the 5th gen

LIVEVIL · 12-03-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

BECAUSE the customer insisted on an inferior quality brand that I knew would take longer than the 3-4 hrs that a Kook, ARH or comparable system would take to install.

So what exactly does this "inferior quality brand" have that it takes a 3-4 hour job and more than doubles it?

I understand a set of cheapo headers not fitting as well as a Kooks pair, but unless he gets the wrong headers all together it shouldn't take 6 extra hours to make them fit. If Kooks fits easily in 3-4 hours, then a worse fitting header would maybe take an extra hour or two to make fit...not 6.

skimms98 · 12-03-2012, 03:14 PM

When you have to start cutting and re-welding entire tube sections on headers it takes time. It's called an " estimate" for a reason.

chris1973 · 12-03-2012, 04:27 PM

I went to 4 different shops in the Alexandria and Arlington VA areas. The estimates ranged from 5 hours to 10 hours (~$600 to ~$1,000). In each case I showed them the parts and the instructions. Two of them popped the hood and looked under the car.

When showing the instructions I showed them the part that said estimated installation time 4-6 hours. In the end me and a buddy did it at his house (he had a better jack and stands) and it took us 4 hours.

Yes they were just estimates but you always have to sign something up front that authorizes up to the max of the estimated price. If your able to do it yourself then do it. Otherwise it's all about trust, if you have/know a mechanic you trust then go that route.

suzbndt · 12-03-2012, 05:10 PM

I did mine in my garage on jack stands in 2.5 with no air tools. Its really not bad for a DIY

Bo White · 12-03-2012, 05:45 PM

If youve put a set of headers on before(on just about anything) a name brand header should go on in 4 hours or less.

Anthony @ LG Motorsports · 12-03-2012, 06:18 PM

Every shop is going to be different but we can baseline dyno a car, install the full header kit, cold air, and tune it in roughly 5 hrs.

midnighter · 12-03-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRT

Hey guys,
I got a price from the local shop to take out my stock exhaust and install a complete new system with LTs and HF cats. He said 10 hours of labor totaling $890.

This sounds a bit steep to me, how does it sound to you guys? What did you pay total and how many hours of labor?

Thanks a bunch!

That sounds about right if he is going to leave the clock rolling while he eats breakfast, works on your car, eats brunch, works on your car, eats lunch, finishes your car, eats dinner, and then adds all the time up.

Birm · 12-03-2012, 08:36 PM

Hell no! 4 hours TOPS, they have a lift and power tools for crying out loud. We did front to back on jack stands in 5 ! And I used torque wrenches lol no electric or air tools!

Walk away and find someone else, that shit is easy.

slickmetal · 12-04-2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIVEVIL

So what exactly does this "inferior quality brand" have that it takes a 3-4 hour job and more than doubles it?

I understand a set of cheapo headers not fitting as well as a Kooks pair, but unless he gets the wrong headers all together it shouldn't take 6 extra hours to make them fit. If Kooks fits easily in 3-4 hours, then a worse fitting header would maybe take an extra hour or two to make fit...not 6.

Exactly what I asked, and to no surprise it wasn't answered.

Stitch · 12-04-2012, 11:40 AM

That is a ridiculous amount of time.

My brother-in-law and I finished the task, headers to tips, in under 4 hours and our thumbs are barely opposable...

12-03-2012, 01:41 PM	#101
a.morblu Drives: 2011 Sinister SS Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Circle City Posts: 489 View My Garage	Had mine installed when I did my cam swap. Here is the labor invoice. I wonder what their cam swap labor would run you... __________________

12-03-2012, 04:27 PM	#105
chris1973 Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Black on Black Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 212 View My Garage	I went to 4 different shops in the Alexandria and Arlington VA areas. The estimates ranged from 5 hours to 10 hours (~$600 to ~$1,000). In each case I showed them the parts and the instructions. Two of them popped the hood and looked under the car. When showing the instructions I showed them the part that said estimated installation time 4-6 hours. In the end me and a buddy did it at his house (he had a better jack and stands) and it took us 4 hours. Yes they were just estimates but you always have to sign something up front that authorizes up to the max of the estimated price. If your able to do it yourself then do it. Otherwise it's all about trust, if you have/know a mechanic you trust then go that route. __________________ 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Black on Black Performance Mods: CAI, ADM Scoop, Rotofab Washer Kit, Cat Back Borla ATK, SLP Underdrive Pulley, SCT Tune, DynaTech Long Tube Headers and High Flow Cats. Appearance Mods: Razzi Bodykit with LEDs, 3D Carbon Side Vents, Tint, Painted Rims and Calipers, See/hear my Camaro at http://youtu.be/wn0Ck-cw6WQ

12-03-2012, 05:45 PM	#107
Bo White Drives: 2015 Summit White 2SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vance Alabama Posts: 8,019	If youve put a set of headers on before(on just about anything) a name brand header should go on in 4 hours or less. __________________ Retired wanna be cylinder head porter 2015 2SS 1LE Clutch reservoir, Vararam DRX, ported TB, TSP 2" headers, MGW shifter Totalled: 2010 1SS Wilkes Performance/Eagle 416 shortblock, TSP custom valvetrain, PRC 260 heads, Edelbrock Pro Flo 102, th400 swap, 8" PTC 5500 stall= 535/435 at the wheels tuned Gen 3 Performance and Dyno 10.97 @ 124 full weight in 3100 DA CamaroFest X

12-04-2012, 11:40 AM	#112
Stitch Drives: SS, CTS & SRT-4 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 427	That is a ridiculous amount of time. My brother-in-law and I finished the task, headers to tips, in under 4 hours and our thumbs are barely opposable... __________________ Pedderized, built and tuned by Back Street Performance: 485/430 - COTW 10/17/2011

12-03-2012, 12:21 PM	#99
skimms98 Drives: 1998 Formula Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Richmond Posts: 5	Okay, after reading through all this I will maintain that there are always two sides to every story. I'm the arrogant asshole he talked to on the phone here at PAS. Clearly things were misunderstood, taken out of context and just plain quoted wrong. The 10 hour quote for the entire exhaust and longtubes was BECAUSE the customer insisted on an inferior quality brand that I knew would take longer than the 3-4 hrs that a Kook, ARH or comparable system would take to install. How do I know? We've been in that movie before. It was only after basically being insulted and berated through four different phone calls from this customer all stating " are you sure? so and so said this, and so and so said that" That I finally got irritated and said I didn't need the work. Truth be told when a customer shows themselves to be a possible problem and won't listen to reason on parts choices before the car even hits my door I am inclined to turn them and it away. We don't want any unhappy customers. The best way is to refer them to good parts. I wasn't even trying to sell them to him even though we're a dealer for both. I was only advising him to buy a good set for a nice car. Cheap junk is exactly that. If you read this entire thread you can see that most of the vendor and installers in this thread see the real story regardless of how it's being portrayed. We are a busy shop. We have been in business for over 15 years successfully. We have an excellent reputation for customer service that we work very hard to uphold. Installing ebay parts and hoping for the best is a lose/lose for everybody. It's why we chose not to do it. If it ruffled feathers, so be it. If it pushed someone to buy a better part for the car in the end regardless of where it was installed, even better. I'm an enthusiast like everyone else on here but I've also been in the high perf industry for 25 plus years and know how all of this stuff goes. Believe me I do. We, in the end, just want people happy with their cars. The way to do that is for them to make informed decisions on mods, regardless of where the parts are purchased or installed. Once that information is dispersed and ignored? I wash my hands of it but felt the need to explain our stance here. Rarely is "cheap and good" ever in the same sentence accurate.

12-03-2012, 01:55 PM	#102
Camper Banned Drives: 10' 2SS LS3 M6 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Phoenix,AZ Posts: 1,370	it is maybe 4 hours on the 5th gen

12-03-2012, 03:14 PM	#104
skimms98 Drives: 1998 Formula Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Richmond Posts: 5	When you have to start cutting and re-welding entire tube sections on headers it takes time. It's called an " estimate" for a reason.

12-03-2012, 05:10 PM	#106
suzbndt Drives: 2010 Camaro SS 2011 Mustang GT Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Huntington WV Posts: 356	I did mine in my garage on jack stands in 2.5 with no air tools. Its really not bad for a DIY

12-03-2012, 06:18 PM	#108
Anthony @ LG Motorsports Drives: 1994 1LE / 2006 Z51 Corvette Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 2,829	Every shop is going to be different but we can baseline dyno a car, install the full header kit, cold air, and tune it in roughly 5 hrs.

12-03-2012, 08:36 PM	#110
Birm Drives: Florida Speed & Power Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pinellas Park, FL Posts: 3,185	Hell no! 4 hours TOPS, they have a lift and power tools for crying out loud. We did front to back on jack stands in 5 ! And I used torque wrenches lol no electric or air tools! Walk away and find someone else, that shit is easy.