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Old 09-15-2015, 05:27 PM   #1
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416 or Cam & Heads?

My SS is my DD and has almost 90,000 miles on it. I've got all the suspension goodies and Kooks headers and Magnaflow 3" cat-back, Ported throttle body. I want more power and would really prefer to go the forged route. The cost is the only thing holding me back.

I figure a 416 and install labor and tune would cost about $12K (correct me if I'm wrong), and ported heads and a cam (with all the other stuff--oil pump, timing chain, etc) would run about $5K (correct me if I'm wrong).

I started thinking even though my stock engine has 90,000 miles and would really need a head rebuild, trunion upgrade, etc, it runs great and doesn't use or burn any oil, it should be worth something if I sell it. I'm an old fart and seldom rev the engine over 5,000 rpm. I've maybe hit 6,000 rpm once or twice in 4 years. I believe that Grannie driving would change after installing a 416 with 480-500 rwhp.

I know there's probably not much of a market for an LS3 with 90,000 miles, but how much do you think I could get for the long block? Is there a reputable forged engine builder that might take my long block as a trade-in? Any suggestions on where I should get a quality forged 416?

I think I might be able to get between $2K and $3K for my complete long block. That whittles the $7,000 price difference down to $4 or $5K and would make my out of pocket about $9-$10K, which I think I could swing. What do you all think?

Thanks for your input.
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Old 09-15-2015, 05:47 PM   #2
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If I could choose I would go forged stroker vs heads on a 90K LS. You can do so much with a forged bottom later on. I have 93K on mine with the 2nd performance cam. Runs great, never burns oil and it's been cammed since 10k miles. I just think at 90K adding power has to have some impact on main bearings. Others may chime in and say they will last longer. Haven't seen much talk about mains and rings and how long they last on stock or mostly stock LS engines. Let's see what others think.
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Old 09-15-2015, 05:53 PM   #3
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If you're stuck on the other two options then I would say go 416...If you are thinking about it now, you're going to do it later...when you do it later you're going to have to put in a different cam at a minimum, possibly different heads depending on what cam goes in there you may want to mill the heads for compression or get different chamber sizes anyway.

You're probably correct on your long block selling price of 2-3k...maybe a little more.
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Old 09-15-2015, 05:56 PM   #4
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Also, if you pull the engine to put in a 416, please do yourself a favor - Since your stock clutch has 90k miles, get it out of there, change the clutch to at minimum a mantic er2 and change out that stock slave cylinder. You're already going to be in there so there's no reason not to at that kind of mileage.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My 5th View Post
My SS is my DD and has almost 90,000 miles on it. I've got all the suspension goodies and Kooks headers and Magnaflow 3" cat-back, Ported throttle body. I want more power and would really prefer to go the forged route. The cost is the only thing holding me back.

I figure a 416 and install labor and tune would cost about $12K (correct me if I'm wrong), and ported heads and a cam (with all the other stuff--oil pump, timing chain, etc) would run about $5K (correct me if I'm wrong).

I started thinking even though my stock engine has 90,000 miles and would really need a head rebuild, trunion upgrade, etc, it runs great and doesn't use or burn any oil, it should be worth something if I sell it. I'm an old fart and seldom rev the engine over 5,000 rpm. I've maybe hit 6,000 rpm once or twice in 4 years. I believe that Grannie driving would change after installing a 416 with 480-500 rwhp.

I know there's probably not much of a market for an LS3 with 90,000 miles, but how much do you think I could get for the long block? Is there a reputable forged engine builder that might take my long block as a trade-in? Any suggestions on where I should get a quality forged 416?

I think I might be able to get between $2K and $3K for my complete long block. That whittles the $7,000 price difference down to $4 or $5K and would make my out of pocket about $9-$10K, which I think I could swing. What do you all think?

Thanks for your input.
I don't know what things cost in Utah but I don't think I paid half of your estimate for my 417. I'd start looking up shops that build stroker motors. If you have one reasonably local to you that would be your best bet for trading in your block. I would recommend selling it outright. I'd also say use Craigslist instead of this forum to sell it. People on this forum told me my block was only worth $2500-$3k. I put it on craigslist and had it sold for $3500 in like two days. If you'd like to PM me I will happily walk you through everything I did and share what I learned. (Good, bad, and otherwise.)

^^^ Upgrade your clutch. I don't race and mine's almost toast.

Here's a few shops I can think of.
Texas Speed and Power
Florida Speed and Power (Fountain Race Engines)
ERL
HKE

I know there are more, that's just what comes to mind right now.
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Old 09-16-2015, 04:39 PM   #6
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if you can swing a 417 sell LS3 to someone who needs another 150,000+ more miles out of it. if not i wouldn't worry about putting a cam in a well maintained LS with 100,000 miles on it. lifters would have to be replaced though.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:59 PM   #7
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You should be able no problem with your engine to get a cam installed. You probably have at least 100 thousand more miles before time to worry about some compression test. I agree the lifters are toast so pulling the heads is required and you could like I have: gone cost effective with new GMPP ported heads that are only $1200. I got mine from Summit and switching the Springs would be that much easier with the heads off and you could really check out your bore.

A stroker will make more torque which is nice but not necessarily the easiest most cost effective way to make power as our cars are undercammed and can gain easy 75 h.p. from a cam swap and tune depending on how radical you want to go. I would also with the miles on your car want to change out the rocker arms maybe just for safeties sake as its cost effective preventative maintenance. Don't believe: look at the 525 hp ASA cam shaft crate engine...... same exact engine but tighter LSA cam with more duration and LESS lift than our stock cam at .525..........not .550.
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Old 09-16-2015, 11:56 PM   #8
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Thanks for the input. One thing about modding--it never stops. I had also thought I would replace the clutch--probably with a ZR1 twin disk, and possibly go to a 3.91 pumpkin. I'll just have to see how much wallet is left after deciding on the motor.
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:01 AM   #9
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with a 416 your going to have more power then the SS diff can handle
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Old 09-17-2015, 09:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
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with a 416 your going to have more power then the SS diff can handle
not true. 416 here...stock driveshaft/diff/axles. Not a single issue. Do have an upgraded clutch, though...

I am, however, planning on a zl1 rear-end setup soon, as I'm hoping to SC my car eventually. The "problem" with the 416 is that you don't make super huge gains after the build (I'm at ~470whp/465tq), but when you start putting on power adders (SC/turbos/etc) the potential power you can make increases dramatically. THAT'S when you really need the upgraded driveline...
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:02 AM   #11
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not true. 416 here...stock driveshaft/diff/axles. Not a single issue. Do have an upgraded clutch, though...
I agree...stock SS diff will handle the power from the 416 just fine. Mine is.
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:24 PM   #12
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so far. 500 hp is about all its good for. after going back to read why its the limited slip and axles that fail in the 500hp range
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Old 09-18-2015, 09:52 AM   #13
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Are you doing install yourself? I think you can do heads cam & 418 for less than that.. Honestly probably even install under 12 grand.... A TSP long block would give you plenty of money left to have it installed & you'd have your stock long block to sell

http://www.texas-speed.com/c-760-376...ng-blocks.aspx
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Old 09-18-2015, 06:40 PM   #14
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Are you doing install yourself? I think you can do heads cam & 418 for less than that.. Honestly probably even install under 12 grand.... A TSP long block would give you plenty of money left to have it installed & you'd have your stock long block to sell

http://www.texas-speed.com/c-760-376...ng-blocks.aspx
Right now I would probably have JDP Motorsports in Sandy do the labor and tune. I've asked them to see if there's a way I can have them do what I want.

I used to do my own wrenching when I was younger, but those days are way behind me now. In addition, my wife would never allow me to take over our small 2-car garage for the tear-down and install. Besides, then she'd know I was spending some $$$ on my mistress. That would not be healthy for me.
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