Power Steering just went out

[patrickt24]

My power steering just went out on me while driving almost causing me to crash. I'm in the process of having it towed to the local dealer. It felt like I was steering an old military 2 1/2 ton truck. I'll keep everyone posted.
I was able to read some of the other post in regards to this problem. It appears to me it may be a grounding issue.

[Bigtime53]

GM sure needs to have a recall on this before someone gets hurt or killed. I do not know why they have not yet. Report that please. I think it is called NTHSA? {I cannot remember the exact name}

[URBAN LEGEND]

I thought this was over with. Not cool.

[Samson2029]

I always fear steering failure. If there is an official fix for this failure maybe we should go ahead and have it fixed even if it is not broken at our expense. There is no price for safety so why not replace the suspect parts no matter how much it costs

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by Samson2029

I always fear steering failure. If there is an official fix for this failure maybe we should go ahead and have it fixed even if it is not broken at our expense. There is no price for safety so why not replace the suspect parts no matter how much it costs

Ignition dudes...

[Bigtime53]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Ignition dudes...

What do you mean,ignition? I also thought it is a ground somewhere that has caused this trouble. Didn't Andy at ADM find this problem and it was a engine ground wire was not making a good ground?

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by Bigtime53

What do you mean,ignition? I also thought it is a ground somewhere that has caused this trouble. Didn't Andy at ADM find this problem and it was a engine ground wire was not making a good ground?

I believe he was just referring to the GM ignition switch fiasco.

[KaBoom1701]

wow, sorry to hear you crashed...

Keep us informed. I'll be the first to fix this myself if you discovery the reason or issue behind it.

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by Bigtime53

What do you mean,ignition? I also thought it is a ground somewhere that has caused this trouble. Didn't Andy at ADM find this problem and it was a engine ground wire was not making a good ground?

ISTR there were some cases where the problem was related to bad grounds at the grounding stud where some people install their CAI (they may have moved the ground wire and relocated it?
There was also at least one case (an early one) where it was traced to a worn electrical cable down near the steering box I believe.

The main problem is that there is no single identifiable component that is the cause of the steering failure that you can replace/improve and eliminate the failure completely.

the more electrical 'features' they pack our cars with these days, the more sensitive our cars become to electrical issues such as voltage levels, grounds, and possibly interference with other electronics either built in or added on by the owners.

[DeSH]

Dude, sorry to hear. 😕 Let us know what the problem turns out to be.

[Bigtime53]

I did a search from andy's post from ADM and this is what I found:


The more I wrap my head around it the more I agree that it is the ground location and size.

The RED 12v+ wire is roughly 6 ga x 32"' long with what appears to be a very robust connector at the power distribution/jump start block mounted to the shock tower on the driver side. The bolt that holds this power lug is 8mm in diameter (same as your starter power inlet bolt) with a 13mm hex outside diameter that can be torqued between 17-29 ft lb give or take. Dam good connection if you ask me.

The BLACK 12v- wire is roughly 6 ga x 48" long with what appears to be a very robust connector at the end that grounds to the side of the car near the Intake. The bolt that grounds it is 6mm in diameter (the diameter of most grounds on the car that ground low current devices like lights, fuel pumps injectors etc.) with a 10mm hex outside diameter and small washer built in flange to aid in surface area.This bolt has a torque rating of 3-12ft lb give or take.

The codes that we are seeing are 90 percent voltage related, I have listed them here -

I have a list of common codes with descriptions:

C0475-00 Power Steering Motor Circuit

C056D-39 Electronic Control Unit Hardware - Internal Malfunction

C056D-3C Electronic Control Unit Hardware - Internal Communication Malfunction

C056D-3B Electronic Control Unit Hardware - Self Test Malfunction

C0800-12 Control Module Power Circuit - Low Input


The math:

6 ga wire 32" long at 125 amps voltage drop is 1.9 percent not factoring in connection point size.

6 ga wire 48" long at 125 amps voltage drop is 3.3 percent not factoring in connection point size.

When electrical current moves through a wire it must surpass a certain level of contrary pressure. If the current is alternating, such pressure is called impedance. Impedance is a vector, or two-dimensional quantity, consisting of resistance and reactance (reaction of a built up electric field to a change of current). If the current is direct, the pressure is called resistance.

All this sounds terribly abstract, but it's really not much different from water running through a garden hose. It takes a certain amount of pressure to push the water through the hose, which is like voltage for electricity. Current is like the water flowing through the hose. And the hose causes a certain level of resistance, depending on its thickness, shape, etc. The same kind of thing is true for wires, as their type and size determines the level of resistance.

Excessive voltage drop in a circuit can cause lights to flicker or burn dimly, heaters to heat poorly, and motors to run hotter than normal and burn out. This condition causes the load to work harder with less voltage pushing the current.

Experts say that voltage drop should never be greater than 3 percent. This is done by selecting the right size of wire, and by taking care in the use of extension cords and similar devices.

The direction I am going with this is very simple - This wire that grounds this power steering rack is to small for its length and load it is expected to carry as well as its connection point size.The wire should have a shorter path to its grounding point,it should have a larger lug that has a higher torque rating and surface area.

Its obvious that the engineers put this part right on the edge of failure yet they made the voltage window it operates within super sensititive to triggering a code and going into limp mode(shut down mode).

For Liability Reasons we will not be offering a fix for this, only raw information of how it works and ideas that can aid in making it better.

[KaBoom1701]

Originally Posted by Bigtime53

I did a search from andy's post from ADM and this is what I found:


The more I wrap my head around it the more I agree that it is the ground location and size.

The RED 12v+ wire is roughly 6 ga x 32"' long with what appears to be a very robust connector at the power distribution/jump start block mounted to the shock tower on the driver side. The bolt that holds this power lug is 8mm in diameter (same as your starter power inlet bolt) with a 13mm hex outside diameter that can be torqued between 17-29 ft lb give or take. Dam good connection if you ask me.

The BLACK 12v- wire is roughly 6 ga x 48" long with what appears to be a very robust connector at the end that grounds to the side of the car near the Intake. The bolt that grounds it is 6mm in diameter (the diameter of most grounds on the car that ground low current devices like lights, fuel pumps injectors etc.) with a 10mm hex outside diameter and small washer built in flange to aid in surface area.This bolt has a torque rating of 3-12ft lb give or take.

The codes that we are seeing are 90 percent voltage related, I have listed them here -

I have a list of common codes with descriptions:

C0475-00 Power Steering Motor Circuit

C056D-39 Electronic Control Unit Hardware - Internal Malfunction

C056D-3C Electronic Control Unit Hardware - Internal Communication Malfunction

C056D-3B Electronic Control Unit Hardware - Self Test Malfunction

C0800-12 Control Module Power Circuit - Low Input


The math:

6 ga wire 32" long at 125 amps voltage drop is 1.9 percent not factoring in connection point size.

6 ga wire 48" long at 125 amps voltage drop is 3.3 percent not factoring in connection point size.

When electrical current moves through a wire it must surpass a certain level of contrary pressure. If the current is alternating, such pressure is called impedance. Impedance is a vector, or two-dimensional quantity, consisting of resistance and reactance (reaction of a built up electric field to a change of current). If the current is direct, the pressure is called resistance.

All this sounds terribly abstract, but it's really not much different from water running through a garden hose. It takes a certain amount of pressure to push the water through the hose, which is like voltage for electricity. Current is like the water flowing through the hose. And the hose causes a certain level of resistance, depending on its thickness, shape, etc. The same kind of thing is true for wires, as their type and size determines the level of resistance.

Excessive voltage drop in a circuit can cause lights to flicker or burn dimly, heaters to heat poorly, and motors to run hotter than normal and burn out. This condition causes the load to work harder with less voltage pushing the current.

Experts say that voltage drop should never be greater than 3 percent. This is done by selecting the right size of wire, and by taking care in the use of extension cords and similar devices.

The direction I am going with this is very simple - This wire that grounds this power steering rack is to small for its length and load it is expected to carry as well as its connection point size.The wire should have a shorter path to its grounding point,it should have a larger lug that has a higher torque rating and surface area.

Its obvious that the engineers put this part right on the edge of failure yet they made the voltage window it operates within super sensititive to triggering a code and going into limp mode(shut down mode).

For Liability Reasons we will not be offering a fix for this, only raw information of how it works and ideas that can aid in making it better.

Interesting read....

So is the fix a thicker gage wire or a shorter wire to help improve this grounding situation?

[patrickt24]

Quick Update: The car is at dealer, they found a bad positive battery cable, service advisor says it's the one that runs from the battery to the front of vehicle. Once it is replaced I want them to show me where and how it is ran.

[nvydvr]

Originally Posted by patrickt24

Quick Update: The car is at dealer, they found a bad positive battery cable, service advisor says it's the one that runs from the battery to the front of vehicle. Once it is replaced I want them to show me where and how it is ran.

Not to sound stupid, but did they say what caused the battery cable to go bad? It's a copper cable, was it a manufacturing defect or was it overheating and deteriorated? Properly loaded electric cables don't just go bad...