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Old 03-05-2018, 01:07 PM   #183
go_go_gadget88
 
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Springs were changed out with the PAC spring kit. TSP installed them when reassembling my heads after porting/valve job. I have more faith in them getting heads together right than I do myself


I spoke with TSP today. They said it either seems like:

1- Exhaust restriction (But then said I should be fine after telling them my setup)

2- Incorrect pushrod length

3- Cam set up advanced. He said this would sure cause the low end to be stout, and falling flat up top. Looking all the more likely that this is the culprit

So they definitely think something isn't right as well. They have requested to see the tune file just for giggles, so I sent my tuner a message. But most likely it is looking to be some form of mechanical limitation.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:13 PM   #184
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so tell me did you replace the timing chain as a complete assm? what troubles me is the exact same issue was present before the work...did it come from the factory like this? was the car previously worked on? did you buy used? sry if you have already answered but I can't believe it would have left the plant like that...

btw - I mean, really, all the fun begins at 5k...
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Old 03-05-2018, 08:41 PM   #185
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I converted to the 3 bolt timing gear and put on a new chain. The dot on crank sprocket was at 12 o clock out the #1 piston at the top, so that seems right isn't it? I didn't see any signs that anything under the hood had ever been apart before this swap. 21k on the car/motor.
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Old 03-05-2018, 09:03 PM   #186
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so now you get to have some real fun..gonna need to get a degree wheel and find out if the factory crank sprocket is off some how...now the last time I did that was a while ago(ages) and the heads were off...and maybe score a multi-degree crank sprocket ..

and yes the dot to dot is the usual method that has proven reliable but as this case highlights..it's always best to double check and verify...

in hind sight wish I had seen that first dyno graph...then taken the time to figure that out before the mod...oh well..it COULD be WAY worse...like motor go bye bye worse..

l8tr bro..

hang on you could get a new cam gear that can be degree'd...duh..then the cam gear provides the fix and you don't have to worry about droppin the pan, pump...etc..
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Old 03-05-2018, 09:04 PM   #187
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Did you degree the cam in with a degree wheel? My engine shop that I deal with said it’s a must if you want it to be right. They said the dowel pen in the cam could be off a very small amount from the way it was ground plus the key way on your crank shaft could be off as well. With either of these problems it’s going to throw your cam degree off. I just did a cam and heads in my car with a custom cam. It was 1.5 degrees off from what it was supposed to be. Luckily I had a multiple key ways in the crank gear to adjust.
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:17 PM   #188
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Well now you have confirmed with TSP there is a problem. Now to tear down and figure it out. Good luck, I hope it is as simple as push rod length, but being that the issue was there before, that's not as likely
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:57 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13SSCamaro View Post
Well now you have confirmed with TSP there is a problem. Now to tear down and figure it out. Good luck, I hope it is as simple as push rod length, but being that the issue was there before, that's not as likely
What issue was there before? It was basically stock, so I didn't think there were any?

If you are talking about the torque dips early on, my tuner is pretty sure it's just the way the mustang dyno starts loading the car up in the pull. He is doing another m6 with cam (unknown specs right now) and bolt ons, so we should have something to compare it to by the end of the week. That would make sense as to why it's like that in both curves. I can say where it dips is where the car ironically seems to start pulling the hardest.

I also can see incorrect PR length leaving power on the table if they were too short, but I am pretty confident that isn't the case with how much measuring I did before putting them in. And PR length wouldn't add a lot of low end would it? The more I read, the more it sounds like the cam is advanced a tooth. Tuner said he's gonna try and get with me this week to hook up his scanner and look at cam/crank signals. He said he'd be surprised it would be off one and not throwing a code. Compression tester will be here today to check cylinder pressure.
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:43 PM   #190
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I guess it just looks deceiving on your baseline, why did the guy run it up to only like 5,250 rpm and let off?
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:43 PM   #191
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This is the last thing I wanna read with a cam about to go in and no degree kit lol
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:31 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13SSCamaro View Post
I guess it just looks deceiving on your baseline, why did the guy run it up to only like 5,250 rpm and let off?
He didn't? It got ran out till like 6k, it just started falling off around then. I think I have a video somewhere, he held her down all the way lol

Keep in mind, that is with cai, and LTs with no cats, but on the stock tune. So it definitely was leaving some on the table

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbunch9 View Post
This is the last thing I wanna read with a cam about to go in and no degree kit lol
You'll be fine! I'm sure I just did something wrong that's got me thrown out of whack. This doesn't seem to be the typical results



Also, I had time to check a few cylinders with compression tester. They are all around 160-165psi (cold) so far
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:53 PM   #193
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Perhaps TSP can give you an idea of cranking compression with that cam, It seems on the low side. Maybe someone with a cam of similar timing can chime in with a number they have. hmmmm
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Old 03-06-2018, 09:03 PM   #194
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Yeah it seems more like what a stock motor would crank at. But, my power curve looks like the stock one too.

This is super weird. At this point I have no idea what the hell is going on :(
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Old 03-06-2018, 09:08 PM   #195
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I'm pissed about it and its not even my car, I hope you can figure it out soon. It would be interesting for a guy like Pat Guerra or Ted Jannetty to look at that graph and see what they would say about it. They have tuned thousands of these things and may have run across similar issues, unfortunetely this would cost money. If you send Pat G a email with the dyno graph and explain the situation he will respond to you as to what he could do for you, he is a really nice guy so is Ted. Just a thought, we are just all pissing in the wind with this thing. Ted is on Camaro5, send him a PM and see what he says, he is a great guy and a great mechanic/tuner and might able to point you in the right direction, his user name is JANNETTYRACING

patrick.guerragroup@gmail.com

tedj@jannettyracing.com

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Old 03-07-2018, 12:10 PM   #196
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You are doing the right thing in dealing with the guys direct go-go gadget.

In the even of the cam being 1 tooth advanced it will throw a code for crank/cam correlation. So that would def be set unless the tuner turned that code off.

I’m sure u guys will get it tracked down man, you have a lot of support in the community.
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