Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
JDP Motorsports
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Cosmetic Maintenance: Washing, Waxing, Detailing, Bodywork, Protection


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-18-2015, 12:08 PM   #1
Red2014SS


 
Red2014SS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 2SS/RS Camaro
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,421
Glaze vs Polishing?

I've been ordering a lot of detailing products in anticipation of warm weather. One thing I've ordered is a Porter Cable 7424XP polisher. After watching tons of You Tube videos on polishing, I've got a question....

What's a better option? .. polishing or just using glaze?

Polishing ..... Polishing removes some of your clear coat. In order to get rid of swirls and microscopic scratches, the very top layer of clear coat is removed and the paint is leveled in the process. How many times can a car be polished before you run out of clear coat?

Glaze... I realize that glaze is a dirty word among some people on this site. However, glaze removes none of your clear. It levels the paint by temporarily filling in microscopic scratches and swirls. In effect, it hides damage to the clear coat without actually fixing it. It wears off, but it can be reapplied as many times as you want.

I am just a novice detailer. I have spent many hours washing, glazing and waxing my previous vehicles. I have always tried to use top of the line products. This is the first time I have ever owned a machine polisher. Included in my polishing kit are Meguiars M105 and M205, with orange and white pads. My car is basically brand new, but it does have swirls in the paint from the dealer. My plan is to clean, clay, polish and wax.

I am concerned about eventually polishing all the clear coat off my car. I realize this would probably take several years, but are my concerns legitimate? How many times can you polish swirls out of your clear before you "run out of clear"? I certainly understand the need for a detailer to polish an older vehicle, in order to achieve a high standard of shine. But, as an owner of a newer vehicle, would I be better off (as for longevity of the paint) to simply forget about polishing and just use glaze?

Thanks in advance for any advise. I appreciate the time you guys put into sharing information and teaching newbies about detailing.
__________________
2014 2SS/RS, L99, SW LTH w/HF Cats, GMPP Ex. Z/28 CAI, FR41s in PVD Black Chrome, Recaros, Pfadt Sway
377hp, 383tq 12.739@110.44 MPH
Red2014SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 12:48 PM   #2
JTruck

 
JTruck's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LT/RS
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,693
Don't worry about running out of clear coat. You can polish it for the rest of your life and still have enough. If you are maintaining your clear coat safely with wash techniques, then you should only have to polish biannually or annually.

If you want to reapply glaze every other week then that's your choice, waste of time in my opinion.

If you bought a PC, then you better polish, otherwise you don't need it for anything else.
__________________
Detailing is an involuntary obsession.
JTruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 02:05 PM   #3
45thAnniversary2SS


 
45thAnniversary2SS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 45th Anniversary 2SS LS3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,802
If you want to be certain, use an EPTG to measure the thickness before and after a polishing session.

Most modern vehicles have a thickness of about 4.5-6.0 mils from the factory.
__________________
45thAnniversary2SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 02:53 PM   #4
scandata

 
scandata's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 2SS/RS vert, Spring Green Edtn
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 1,284
Since you plan to polish it at least once, follow that with a sealant. A sealant is more durable than wax and can last up to a year or more. It's one more (strong) layer of protection between your clear coat and all the environmental cooties floating around. Plus, with most sealants you can still apply glaze and/or wax over it, so if you do get any light swirls afterward you can still hide them with glaze/wax until the next polishing session. Some sealants are difficult to apply correctly, but a popular one with novices is BlackFire Wet Diamond for its ease of use.

Adding to that, even if you decide never to polish again, you can still use your PC to apply wax. On large areas like the hood and doors it makes the job much quicker. It can also be used for sanding wood if you use pads that are meant for it, but that's a different forum entirely!
__________________
2015 2SS/RS vert, Spring Edition Green Flash (2015 - present)
2014 1LT vert, Blue Ray Metallic (2014 - 2015)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/scandata/sigpic_zpsxmxmbipg.jpg

Last edited by scandata; 02-18-2015 at 03:04 PM.
scandata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 04:15 PM   #5
Joe M 2012 2SS

 
Joe M 2012 2SS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 2SS
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Shelby NC
Posts: 2,116
After you use the 105 to remove all the swirls and all moderate defects, and finish down with 205, the idea is to use proper wash technique so you wont have to use the 105 again, just the 205 for the everyday stuff you get from daily driving.
If the glaze your using fills the swirls you have, you may not need to use the 105, the 205 may do the trick. Try the 205 first on a spot and see what your results are.
Check with a light, some people on here use the Brinkman, I couldn't find it for sale, so I got the Flex light, it works very well. An even better light is the Husky, which I also use, and of course direct sunlight shows everything.

Here is a thread from Autogeek about the question, How many times can you polish? Go to page 5 and read what Mike Phillips says, this should answer your question.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...ou-buff-5.html

Last edited by Joe M 2012 2SS; 02-18-2015 at 05:10 PM.
Joe M 2012 2SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 07:29 PM   #6
Adam's Polishes



 
Adam's Polishes's Avatar
 
Drives: The shiny ones.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the detail shop!
Posts: 5,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTruck View Post
Don't worry about running out of clear coat. You can polish it for the rest of your life and still have enough. If you are maintaining your clear coat safely with wash techniques, then you should only have to polish biannually or annually.

^^^Correct!

Speaking in generalities here since every car is a little different you have somewhere around 4-6 mils of total coating thickness on your paint. Thats the total of the primer, basecoat (color) and clear.

Each mil is 25.4 microns (µ)

Again, speaking in general terms your breakdown is somewhere in the range of:

50 µ primer
25-50 µ base
50-75 µ clear

Now... lets even assume you got a car painted on a Friday, by the laziest robot on the assembly line having a bad day and only got 50µ of clear coat.

Now to put this all into perspective: my testing (which I have documented and can share here) the combination of a flex 3401 + microfiber cutting pad + paint correcting polish at max speed and pressure followed by white foam and Finishing polish removed and average of 4µ-5µ of clear coat. Thats typically more than enough to knock down even moderate to heavy swirls. Scratches and deeper RIDS would be another story.

So assuming you do one heavy correction and have thin clear to start with:

50µ - 5µ = 45µ remaining.

If you do a good job of washing, reducing damage, and only need to do fine polishes to maintain a couple times a year going forward I tested our white foam + finishing polish to remove <1µ with multiple passes. If you were to 2 touchup polishes a year for a decade you'd still have more than 25µ of clear left to work with. Again, this all assuming you got the thinnest clear coat and went bananas on your first correction.

For most guys, starting closer to 75µ you've got quite a lot more to work with. Long story short - if you maintain the vehicle properly and only do touchup passes of light polish as needed you're going to be well onto your next vehicle before its ever a concern. I'd be shocked if the majority of the guys here even owned their cars 5 years from now. In times of economic stability most people average 40-50 months between new car purchases. 2012 when things were tough the US hit the highest interval between new cars ever 71 months, almost 6 years. No one keeps a car long enough anymore to ever worry about 'running out of clear coat'
Adam's Polishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 07:43 PM   #7
JTruck

 
JTruck's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LT/RS
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam's Polishes View Post
^^^Correct!

Speaking in generalities here since every car is a little different you have somewhere around 4-6 mils of total coating thickness on your paint. Thats the total of the primer, basecoat (color) and clear.

Each mil is 25.4 microns (µ)

Again, speaking in general terms your breakdown is somewhere in the range of:

50 µ primer
25-50 µ base
50-75 µ clear

Now... lets even assume you got a car painted on a Friday, by the laziest robot on the assembly line having a bad day and only got 50µ of clear coat.

Now to put this all into perspective: my testing (which I have documented and can share here) the combination of a flex 3401 + microfiber cutting pad + paint correcting polish at max speed and pressure followed by white foam and Finishing polish removed and average of 4µ-5µ of clear coat. Thats typically more than enough to knock down even moderate to heavy swirls. Scratches and deeper RIDS would be another story.

So assuming you do one heavy correction and have thin clear to start with:

50µ - 5µ = 45µ remaining.

If you do a good job of washing, reducing damage, and only need to do fine polishes to maintain a couple times a year going forward I tested our white foam + finishing polish to remove <1µ with multiple passes. If you were to 2 touchup polishes a year for a decade you'd still have more than 25µ of clear left to work with. Again, this all assuming you got the thinnest clear coat and went bananas on your first correction.

For most guys, starting closer to 75µ you've got quite a lot more to work with. Long story short - if you maintain the vehicle properly and only do touchup passes of light polish as needed you're going to be well onto your next vehicle before its ever a concern. I'd be shocked if the majority of the guys here even owned their cars 5 years from now. In times of economic stability most people average 40-50 months between new car purchases. 2012 when things were tough the US hit the highest interval between new cars ever 71 months, almost 6 years. No one keeps a car long enough anymore to ever worry about 'running out of clear coat'
I want to know how much of a pain in the ass adding that symbol in everywhere on this post was.
__________________
Detailing is an involuntary obsession.
JTruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 07:49 PM   #8
Adam's Polishes



 
Adam's Polishes's Avatar
 
Drives: The shiny ones.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the detail shop!
Posts: 5,580
not hard... option+m on mac OS = µ

The more you know....



Adam's Polishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 09:55 PM   #9
Joe M 2012 2SS

 
Joe M 2012 2SS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 2SS
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Shelby NC
Posts: 2,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam's Polishes View Post
^^^Correct!

Speaking in generalities here since every car is a little different you have somewhere around 4-6 mils of total coating thickness on your paint. Thats the total of the primer, basecoat (color) and clear.

Each mil is 25.4 microns (µ)

Again, speaking in general terms your breakdown is somewhere in the range of:

50 µ primer
25-50 µ base
50-75 µ clear

Now... lets even assume you got a car painted on a Friday, by the laziest robot on the assembly line having a bad day and only got 50µ of clear coat.

Now to put this all into perspective: my testing (which I have documented and can share here) the combination of a flex 3401 + microfiber cutting pad + paint correcting polish at max speed and pressure followed by white foam and Finishing polish removed and average of 4µ-5µ of clear coat. Thats typically more than enough to knock down even moderate to heavy swirls. Scratches and deeper RIDS would be another story.

So assuming you do one heavy correction and have thin clear to start with:

50µ - 5µ = 45µ remaining.

If you do a good job of washing, reducing damage, and only need to do fine polishes to maintain a couple times a year going forward I tested our white foam + finishing polish to remove <1µ with multiple passes. If you were to 2 touchup polishes a year for a decade you'd still have more than 25µ of clear left to work with. Again, this all assuming you got the thinnest clear coat and went bananas on your first correction.

For most guys, starting closer to 75µ you've got quite a lot more to work with. Long story short - if you maintain the vehicle properly and only do touchup passes of light polish as needed you're going to be well onto your next vehicle before its ever a concern. I'd be shocked if the majority of the guys here even owned their cars 5 years from now. In times of economic stability most people average 40-50 months between new car purchases. 2012 when things were tough the US hit the highest interval between new cars ever 71 months, almost 6 years. No one keeps a car long enough anymore to ever worry about 'running out of clear coat'

Thanks for this detailed analysis.
I was curious of 1 thing tough, would the amount of clear removed be determined by the hardness of the paint as well?
If so, in your process, what would you rate the level on the test subject. Soft, medium or hard?

Last edited by Joe M 2012 2SS; 02-18-2015 at 10:20 PM.
Joe M 2012 2SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2015, 01:20 PM   #10
Adam's Polishes



 
Adam's Polishes's Avatar
 
Drives: The shiny ones.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the detail shop!
Posts: 5,580
There are virtually limitless factors to how much material you'll remove... my numbers above are just 'averages' based on my experience on a number of vehicles. Could be +/- a micron either way depending on the exact situation and car.

Last edited by Adam's Polishes; 02-19-2015 at 01:39 PM.
Adam's Polishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2015, 11:28 PM   #11
CCMADONNA

 
CCMADONNA's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 SW 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,626
think of glaze as a woman's makeup.

Apply it like you would for a night out on the town, and expect the brilliance to last just as long as a woman's makeup would.
__________________

2014 2SS/RS VERT L99
SUMMIT WHITE
AIRAID CAI
BORLA ATAK CAT-BACK EXHAUST
ELITE ENGINEERING CATCH-CAN
RANGE AFM-DELETE MODULE
HUPER OPTIK 40
CHROME PEDALS
PREMIUM FLOOR MATS
PREMIUM CARGO MAT
DEDICATED 32GB iPHONE HD
[/I][/B][IMG][/IMG]
CCMADONNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2015, 11:54 PM   #12
JTruck

 
JTruck's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LT/RS
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCMADONNA View Post
think of glaze as a woman's makeup.

Apply it like you would for a night out on the town, and expect the brilliance to last just as long as a woman's makeup would.
__________________
Detailing is an involuntary obsession.
JTruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 12:56 AM   #13
CamaroDreams07


 
CamaroDreams07's Avatar
 
Drives: Slow V6
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Lansing, MI
Posts: 9,362
Makeup always fools you til that fateful sunrise the morning after.
__________________
[B]
CamaroDreams07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 08:45 AM   #14
Red2014SS


 
Red2014SS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 2SS/RS Camaro
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,421
Thanks a million for the great responses to my question. (Especially Adam's Polishes for typing all of that out). You guys really are the best and you make this forum a great place to learn.

I thought I would be able to use the polisher every time I noticed a new swirl, but, after reading your responses, that may not be a good idea. My car is a daily driver, so I need to accept the fact that I won't be able to keep it perfect.

Winter is the problem. We get enough snow to warrant them using salt all of the time. Salt is like a phobia for me. I cannot stand to know there is any salt on my car. I grew up back when cars would rust out in the first year of ownership and I've never gotten over it..

I realize that I could hand wash it all winter, use touchless, or bucket wash at the quarter car wash. I have tried all of this... I cannot get my driveway or road covered in water (it freezes). The touchless carwash leaves behind a slimy film of salt/dirt. Bucket washing at the $.75 car wash doesn't get salt off the bottom of the car..the only real option is a drive through car wash, which does remove all of the salt, but it also causes a lot of paint damage.

After reading your responses, it seems like the best solution is to polish the car each spring, then use a combination of glaze and wax to keep it looking as good as possible for the rest of the year. (Hopefully, M205 will be able to tackle the car wash swirls each spring.) I have always used pure carnuba wax as a FSP, but I need to learn about sealants and start using them.

Thanks again. You guys rock.
__________________
2014 2SS/RS, L99, SW LTH w/HF Cats, GMPP Ex. Z/28 CAI, FR41s in PVD Black Chrome, Recaros, Pfadt Sway
377hp, 383tq 12.739@110.44 MPH
Red2014SS is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.