To void or not to void: Worst that can happen?

[NoleLife]

So probably one of the biggest questions for 5th gen owners, the oldest of these cars still being covered under powertrain warranty, is whether it is worth it to void the warranty for some performance mods. I am some one that weighs all sides, and doesn't like surprises, so I am posing this question: What is the worst that can happen?

I have a 2013, with 15k miles on it. I initially had a couple scares regarding a lifter but have accepted it to probably just be "noisy valvetrain" per the dealerships. And if I did void it, and it failed, maybe that would be an excuse for new heads. But here's what I want to know. If I get long tube with catless midpipes and do a tune, what is the worst that could "fail" on the powertrain? If something breaks, I can more than likely afford to fix it without too much sweat. I even priced out shortblocks so in a worst case scenario there won't be any surprise and I can make sure that if I'm going to play hard that I am prepared for unfortunate circumstances.

But, once you get into headers, tunes, and maybe things like ported heads down the road, what is typically something that is at risk for breaking, and the cost. What is the worst case scenario?


In case anyone is wondering, this is how I arrived at this dilemma. I was set on not voiding it. I was going to get my intake, and some high flow cats. Upgrade the suspension and maybe do 3.91s until my warranty was up. But even with just HFCs, there is a risk of a CEL, and then I saw that Borla and SLP has LTs for only 100 dollars more.... So why not just get LTs and a tune is my thought.

[AG1LE]

[blake2010ss]

headers and a tune leaves your car at just as much of a risk as stock, as long as your tune is good. I wouldnt worry about internals breaking untill you actually break into the motor, but even then, most shops have their tunes and experience with these motors so down packed that even a cam/heads car is quite reliable.

[christianchevell]

never had a lifter noise on one of my Camaros..... and I own a 2013 ss m6 like you now, traded up from a 2011. I am installing stainless power longtubes (Maryland speed)and a cam TSP , for about 4k with all the goodies and upgrades. Here are things to consider.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/g...parts_failure/

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by NoleLife

So probably one of the biggest questions for 5th gen owners, the oldest of these cars still being covered under powertrain warranty, is whether it is worth it to void the warranty for some performance mods. I am some one that weighs all sides, and doesn't like surprises, so I am posing this question: What is the worst that can happen?

I have a 2013, with 15k miles on it. I initially had a couple scares regarding a lifter but have accepted it to probably just be "noisy valvetrain" per the dealerships. And if I did void it, and it failed, maybe that would be an excuse for new heads. But here's what I want to know. If I get long tube with catless midpipes and do a tune, what is the worst that could "fail" on the powertrain? If something breaks, I can more than likely afford to fix it without too much sweat. I even priced out shortblocks so in a worst case scenario there won't be any surprise and I can make sure that if I'm going to play hard that I am prepared for unfortunate circumstances.

But, once you get into headers, tunes, and maybe things like ported heads down the road, what is typically something that is at risk for breaking, and the cost. What is the worst case scenario?


In case anyone is wondering, this is how I arrived at this dilemma. I was set on not voiding it. I was going to get my intake, and some high flow cats. Upgrade the suspension and maybe do 3.91s until my warranty was up. But even with just HFCs, there is a risk of a CEL, and then I saw that Borla and SLP has LTs for only 100 dollars more.... So why not just get LTs and a tune is my thought.

A service department or automotive manufacturer can not outright void your warranty simply because you have installed aftermarket parts or have modified your vehicle. They can only deny a warranty claim if the issue in question is a direct result of the installed part or modification. Even with tuning the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)) still applies. They can not refuse to replace a water pump because you have a tune for instance.

At 15,000 miles, you are probably outside the danger window if your engine had some sort of existing defect and was a ticking time bomb. As long as you use good parts, maintain it well, and use a knowledgeable and experienced tuner (not one of these young guys that have been tuning for 6 months and tells you he can get more power than anyone else in the country) then the risk is relatively low. Personally, I have the same out look as you. If something breaks it is just an opportunity to upgrade.

There is some level of risk associated with every mod, and while a CEL can happen with Solo high flow cats it is very rare. It is not the norm and not something I would expect to happen going into it. If you do decide to go straight to long tubes, like you mentioned, there are good options for not a whole lot more money than Solo high flow cats. Better than SLP and Borla long tubes. Take a look at Stainless Power. You will get a very well designed set of 304l stainless steel headers that produce strong gains at a reasonable price point.

[Bo White]

You have to go through the trouble of fighting them, bring your a game though. GM doesn't play.

[NoleLife]

Originally Posted by Apex Chase

A service department or automotive manufacturer can not outright void your warranty simply because you have installed aftermarket parts or have modified your vehicle. They can only deny a warranty claim if the issue in question is a direct result of the installed part or modification. Even with tuning the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)) still applies. They can not refuse to replace a water pump because you have a tune for instance.

At 15,000 miles, you are probably outside the danger window if your engine had some sort of existing defect and was a ticking time bomb. As long as you use good parts, maintain it well, and use a knowledgeable and experienced tuner (not one of these young guys that have been tuning for 6 months and tells you he can get more power than anyone else in the country) then the risk is relatively low. Personally, I have the same out look as you. If something breaks it is just an opportunity to upgrade.

There is some level of risk associated with every mod, and while a CEL can happen with Solo high flow cats it is very rare. It is not the norm and not something I would expect to happen going into it. If you do decide to go straight to long tubes, like you mentioned, there are good options for not a whole lot more money than Solo high flow cats. Better than SLP and Borla long tubes. Take a look at Stainless Power. You will get a very well designed set of 304l stainless steel headers that produce strong gains at a reasonable price point.

Thanks for the feedback Chase! I have done a fair bit of research on this and have read all of your posts (including the "Will this void my warranty" one) and they are packed full of great information, so I've got to extend many thanks. I remember your write-up about a tune not strictly voiding it, but on the flip side if the valve train does have issues, fails, and causes the engine to blow (obviously worst case scenario) wouldn't it be too easy for GM to say the tune was causing the engine to run lean or this or that, and not cover the engine replacement?

I'm approaching this from the stand point of, I'll accept having to replace gaskets, or heads, or accessories, but I would really rather not put myself in a place where I have to replace the block or rotating assembly. Could I? Sure - but I'd rather not at this point haha.

I think I am siding more towards the LTs side at this point though.

As far as GM, if I had too, I can be a hard ass. But they have lawyers on retainer and if I wanted to fight them and they weren't going to cave easily then it could be very expensive in the long run. I feel like they want to make it seem like if you tune you void the warranty so not everyone does it. That way they don't have to pay to fix the engines of the people who do go to Joe-Shmoe and get a shitty tune.

As far as the headers: How about deese?
http://www.phastekperformance.com/St...lt-headers.htm

Edit: I've also looked at the BBK system with off-road pipes. Are they comparable to the Stainless Power?

[ST1LE]

Hey Chase, what would you say is the 'danger window' on mileage? I am at about 6,000 miles and wondering if I should wait a while to get LT and tune.

[revived]

I waited until 25k and not going to tune for a while.

[Mr. Nasty]

Hey man wouldn't thank you would have noisy lifter with the LS3 like the L99. I would have it checked out with a different dealer if your going to the one I thank you are. I know what the wife went throw there with her car.

Make sure ever thing good then let the mods go wide open.

[Dimitrim]

Originally Posted by NoleLife

So probably one of the biggest questions for 5th gen owners, the oldest of these cars still being covered under powertrain warranty, is whether it is worth it to void the warranty for some performance mods. I am some one that weighs all sides, and doesn't like surprises, so I am posing this question: What is the worst that can happen?

I have a 2013, with 15k miles on it. I initially had a couple scares regarding a lifter but have accepted it to probably just be "noisy valvetrain" per the dealerships. And if I did void it, and it failed, maybe that would be an excuse for new heads. But here's what I want to know. If I get long tube with catless midpipes and do a tune, what is the worst that could "fail" on the powertrain? If something breaks, I can more than likely afford to fix it without too much sweat. I even priced out shortblocks so in a worst case scenario there won't be any surprise and I can make sure that if I'm going to play hard that I am prepared for unfortunate circumstances.

But, once you get into headers, tunes, and maybe things like ported heads down the road, what is typically something that is at risk for breaking, and the cost. What is the worst case scenario?


In case anyone is wondering, this is how I arrived at this dilemma. I was set on not voiding it. I was going to get my intake, and some high flow cats. Upgrade the suspension and maybe do 3.91s until my warranty was up. But even with just HFCs, there is a risk of a CEL, and then I saw that Borla and SLP has LTs for only 100 dollars more.... So why not just get LTs and a tune is my thought.

Have you thought of taking your car to another non-GM mechanic for a second opinion about that valve train noise? Even so, I would definately have this noise figured out before you mod. It is very easy to replace most of these components. If one fails, usually you have to drop the pan to remove the broken off pieces of rollers.

[NoleLife]

Originally Posted by Dimitrim

Have you thought of taking your car to another non-GM mechanic for a second opinion about that valve train noise? Even so, I would definately have this noise figured out before you mod. It is very easy to replace most of these components. If one fails, usually you have to drop the pan to remove the broken off pieces of rollers.

In response to you, and Mr. Nasty:

I initially took it to the one you are thinking of Mr. Nasty. They listened to it and said "Sorta sounds like typical valve train, but may be an exhaust leak". They gave me a rental car for the day and checked out the motor. He opened up the top and they said "there is definitely something making noise on the drive side bank".

The service report says "Found the lifters on the #5 cylinder noisey. They were not pumping up all the way. Scanned for codes, removed valve cover. Removed the #5 rocker arms and noise went away. Replaced the #5 lifters and tested. Was normal"

I picked it up the next morning and it was definitely fixed. The next morning the sound was back. I then took it into Dale Earndhart Chevrolet here in town and had them look at it. They had it for the day, I had to ride into work and use leave due to being late. They called around lunch and said they couldn't get it to make any sound out of the ordinary. I said to drive it around the parking lot, gave them go ahead to get on the throttle a bit during this. They called back a little later and said that they could hear a sound but the head mechanic said this: "If you aren't having any codes thrown, and the engine seems to be running fine and making power otherwise, we don't think it's worth it to spend time taking the engine apart again". I grilled them with questions and they said it *MAY* be a progressive issue and for me to "drive it like I stole it" and if it gets worse to bring it in and they will look at it then.

I went back and forth on here with one of the service reps, through private messages, essentially making the point that I would be furiously livid if it ended up breaking down on me during a long road trip (I have been there before, it's hell). I also said that knowing there is a pre-existing problem makes me concerned about any issues arising from it once my warranty is up, OR if I choose to void my warranty on my own accord through modifications.

He assured me that if an issue arose after my warranty was up (but did not address if I voided my warranty myself) that since he has a case logged for me, with it being a pre-existing issue, that it would still potentially be covered. I don't like the word "potentially" though, or "probably". I deal in absolutes. It's either covered or it's not. I've all but forgot about it since, until now that I'm looking at headers and a tune.

Work is really busy for me right now so being without a vehicle for a day 2 only to be told "Sounds fine... LS3s have clanky valve train" is not acceptable. Though I would like the peace of mind of knowing if it's a real issue.

What can cause a lifter to not pump up all the way? Would it be a problem with the block? Is this a problem that could be catastrophic once making more power? And could this cause the engine to run really rich (I have a ridiculous amount of carbon buildup on my tips within a day or 2 of washing it)

[Dimitrim]

Most likely a bad batch of lifters.

[litle88]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Hey Chase, what would you say is the 'danger window' on mileage? I am at about 6,000 miles and wondering if I should wait a while to get LT and tune.

Your gonna be waiting a while for an answer lol.