Camaro Wheels for Autocross and/or Track Day

[Norm Peterson]

No offense taken, nor would there have been in the absence of your assurance.

You have to remember that back when I bought my GT in early 2008 there was no Camaro option (and the then-recently re-introduced Challenger was simply too big and too heavy). Whatever I was going to get post-2007 or so was eventually going to replace a 1979 Chevy Malibu that had itself been pushed more in the corner-carving direction than was done to most of those cars. It's been fun developing the '08 as a dual-purpose car, and I guess at least moderately successful.

I also tend to keep cars a long time - as an overall average since buying new cars, that currently stands at a little over than 15 years each (18 to disposal for the ones we no longer have). Whether that means I've just been lucky all these years (not entirely) or I've actually matched the right cars to us as individuals, I don't know. But neither of us gets the itch to replace a car that's fun to drive and at least reasonably reliable, and keeping one or two of our "old cars" around as spares instead of trading them in has been working well for us, our kids, and most recently the oldest grand-kid.

On the matter of stick axle vs IRS, it's been my position that a well-done stick axle suspension is at least the equal of an indifferently done-up IRS. And I've driven some IRS cars that in full street trim weren't very good (a couple were real stinkers, if pushed hard on a road that wasn't flat). I mention that mainly to caution against considering IRS some sort of magic potion for every known ride and handling ill. The details still matter, perhaps more so with IRS. Heh . . . over on a different forum some of us were discussing the merits of the 3-link suspension over other live axle options some 3 or 4 years before that configuration showed up on the S197 Mustang.

The IRS in her car is at least decent, I've driven a 6th gen 1SS a little more than moderately hard, and a Z51 'Vette at fair speed around a road course. If I was shopping today for a new car primarily for myself, the top two candidates (maybe the only candidates) would be an SS 1LE Camaro and the GT/PP2 Mustang. That's as far as I've got.

Bottom line, the fact that I'm still driving a stick axle car on the kind of track that has lots of different corners isn't a matter of preference so much as it's a consequence of the way things came together. We're both now retired, which has a way of stifling car purchases done "on impulse".


Norm

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

No offense taken, nor would there have been in the absence of your assurance.

You have to remember that back when I bought my GT in early 2008 there was no Camaro option (and the then-recently re-introduced Challenger was simply too big and too heavy). Whatever I was going to get post-2007 or so was eventually going to replace a 1979 Chevy Malibu that had itself been pushed more in the corner-carving direction than was done to most of those cars. It's been fun developing the '08 as a dual-purpose car, and I guess at least moderately successful.

I also tend to keep cars a long time - as an overall average since buying new cars, that currently stands at a little over than 15 years each (18 to disposal for the ones we no longer have). Whether that means I've just been lucky all these years (not entirely) or I've actually matched the right cars to us as individuals, I don't know. But neither of us gets the itch to replace a car that's fun to drive and at least reasonably reliable, and keeping one or two of our "old cars" around as spares instead of trading them in has been working well for us, our kids, and most recently the oldest grand-kid.

On the matter of stick axle vs IRS, it's been my position that a well-done stick axle suspension is at least the equal of an indifferently done-up IRS. And I've driven some IRS cars that in full street trim weren't very good (a couple were real stinkers, if pushed hard on a road that wasn't flat). I mention that mainly to caution against considering IRS some sort of magic potion for every known ride and handling ill. The details still matter, perhaps more so with IRS. Heh . . . over on a different forum some of us were discussing the merits of the 3-link suspension over other live axle options some 3 or 4 years before that configuration showed up on the S197 Mustang.

The IRS in her car is at least decent, I've driven a 6th gen 1SS a little more than moderately hard, and a Z51 'Vette at fair speed around a road course. If I was shopping today for a new car primarily for myself, the top two candidates (maybe the only candidates) would be an SS 1LE Camaro and the GT/PP2 Mustang. That's as far as I've got.

Bottom line, the fact that I'm still driving a stick axle car on the kind of track that has lots of different corners isn't a matter of preference so much as it's a consequence of the way things came together. We're both now retired, which has a way of stifling car purchases done "on impulse".

Norm

Great information Norm! Thanks for the response.

[PDXSSCE]

Would 18x9.5 & 38 offset squared wheels fit an LS without fit or suspension issues? Would 18x8.5 & 32 offset front with 18x9.5 & 38 offset rear wheels be better?

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

No offense taken, nor would there have been in the absence of your assurance.

You have to remember that back when I bought my GT in early 2008 there was no Camaro option (and the then-recently re-introduced Challenger was simply too big and too heavy). Whatever I was going to get post-2007 or so was eventually going to replace a 1979 Chevy Malibu that had itself been pushed more in the corner-carving direction than was done to most of those cars. It's been fun developing the '08 as a dual-purpose car, and I guess at least moderately successful.

I also tend to keep cars a long time - as an overall average since buying new cars, that currently stands at a little over than 15 years each (18 to disposal for the ones we no longer have). Whether that means I've just been lucky all these years (not entirely) or I've actually matched the right cars to us as individuals, I don't know. But neither of us gets the itch to replace a car that's fun to drive and at least reasonably reliable, and keeping one or two of our "old cars" around as spares instead of trading them in has been working well for us, our kids, and most recently the oldest grand-kid.

On the matter of stick axle vs IRS, it's been my position that a well-done stick axle suspension is at least the equal of an indifferently done-up IRS. And I've driven some IRS cars that in full street trim weren't very good (a couple were real stinkers, if pushed hard on a road that wasn't flat). I mention that mainly to caution against considering IRS some sort of magic potion for every known ride and handling ill. The details still matter, perhaps more so with IRS. Heh . . . over on a different forum some of us were discussing the merits of the 3-link suspension over other live axle options some 3 or 4 years before that configuration showed up on the S197 Mustang.

The IRS in her car is at least decent, I've driven a 6th gen 1SS a little more than moderately hard, and a Z51 'Vette at fair speed around a road course. If I was shopping today for a new car primarily for myself, the top two candidates (maybe the only candidates) would be an SS 1LE Camaro and the GT/PP2 Mustang. That's as far as I've got.

Bottom line, the fact that I'm still driving a stick axle car on the kind of track that has lots of different corners isn't a matter of preference so much as it's a consequence of the way things came together. We're both now retired, which has a way of stifling car purchases done "on impulse".

Norm

Norm, what size wheels & tires are on your Mustang?

[Norm Peterson]

The "track set" - pictured in my sig - is 285/35-18 MPSS on 18x11 F14 Forgestars, all four corners. What the 5th gen 1LE wore out back had some influence here. I put "track set" in quotes because they see at least as many street miles as track miles in travel to & from the track plus a bit more if I get lazy about changing them. I don't quite have to run a spacer up front, but the strut-side clearance is pretty tight (around 1.5 mm with the new Ford Racing hubs) and I'd need some spacing for anything wider than 285/xx in 18".

The other set, which so far has only seen street duty, is 265/40-18 MPSS on 18x9.5 SVT/Ford GT500 wheels. If I hadn't already had the 9.5" wide wheels, I'd have gone with 10's for those.

For reference, the car came with 235/50-18's on 18x8.5's.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

Would 18x9.5 & 38 offset squared wheels fit an LS without fit or suspension issues? Would 18x8.5 & 32 offset front with 18x9.5 & 38 offset rear wheels be better?

I was hoping somebody else would chime in on this.

I know my preference would be for the 9.5" all around, especially since the car was set up to run the same size all around, and shouldn't need to be given any more understeer than it has as OE.

But I can't find enough information to have any confidence that a +38 offset would work up front without spacers, or what thickness spacers would be required (which then generally requires longer and stronger wheel studs).


Norm

[Burt]

I'll have to look into the 8.5+32 versus 9.5+38 up front, but personally I would go with a 19. I've run 19s and 20s on my car, and the 19 seems to split the difference between weight and tire diameter for 18s and 20s nicely, and there is a good selection of 305/30R19 serious performance rubber available. I'm actually about to list my 19x10.5 +22 wheels for sale, and I can double check front fitment with stock suspension when Inswap it back on if you'd like.

[VR Baron]

For autocross we all seem to use 305/30/19s with Bridgestone RE 71 tires. Wheel size use 10.75” wide or preferably the z28 size and offset. You need to nail the wheel offsets or they won’t fit. These seem to be the best combo for autocross and track though some folks go a bit larger but not really necessary. 18” wheels you run out of rpm at times if and long straights are in the course setup, and ground clearance is a big issue if your car is lowered.
For now I would just use your stock setup to get used to the car and do autocross first, big tracks require more experience and a lot more wear on your car. As you get better then you can mod and spend as you want . Seat time, Seat time is the best thing you can do first and always!!

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Burt

I'll have to look into the 8.5+32 versus 9.5+38 up front, but personally I would go with a 19. I've run 19s and 20s on my car, and the 19 seems to split the difference between weight and tire diameter for 18s and 20s nicely, and there is a good selection of 305/30R19 serious performance rubber available. I'm actually about to list my 19x10.5 +22 wheels for sale, and I can double check front fitment with stock suspension when Inswap it back on if you'd like.

Burt, your offer is greatly appreciated, but you don't need to go through the trouble. I'm in the learning stage right now & gathering much information from all of you experienced & knowledgeable forum members.

[naikaidriver]

I have tracked my SS with the stock wheels, 20x9 up front and 20x10 in the rear and now 20x10 all the way around and the difference is immense.

If you are just starting out. I STRONGLY recommend not throwing parts at your car until you learn to drive it as it sits. There is no mod that will increase your car's performance at the track more than Driver Education!

That said, upgrade your brake fluid to DOT4 such as Motul RBF600 and get some better pads such as the Hawk HPS as a minimum before running your first track day. As your skills improve and you gain more understanding of the nuances of how 5th gen's behave on the track, then start looking at wheels and tires.

5th gens are built with a large amount of understeer from the factory for safety. This can be frustrating at the track as you start exploring the limits of grip in the corners. When you're ready, I like the 20x10, square setup with 275/40 20 tires on each wheel. This serves as a good starting point before you start adding stiffer bars, lowering springs, struts etc.

Scott

[Norm Peterson]

I'd look a bit further up the brake pad food chain then HPS. Those are still street pads and not really intended for extreme braking over 20 or so minutes at a time. There are other pads that have much better initial 'bite', which goes to your confidence that they'll get the job done, every time.


Norm

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I'd look a bit further up the brake pad food chain then HPS. Those are still street pads and not really intended for extreme braking over 20 or so minutes at a time. There are other pads that have much better initial 'bite', which goes to your confidence that they'll get the job done, every time.


Norm

Agreed but the HPS are better than the OEM pads is all I was saying. Personally I prefer the HP+ for track days but they will eat your rotors if you drive them on the street. I learned that the hard way. HPS are just a good "all around pad".

Most drivers don't get anywhere near the capability of their car, tires or brakes the first few times out.


Scott

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by naikaidriver

Agreed but the HPS are better than the OEM pads is all I was saying. Personally I prefer the HP+ for track days but they will eat your rotors if you drive them on the street. I learned that the hard way. HPS are just a good "all around pad".

As did I.

Carbotechs in the lower XP numbers or G-locs between about R8 and R12 have bite (and potentially dust/noise) comparable to HP+ with HPS-ish rotor wear rates. A bit spendy, though.


Norm

[VR Baron]

If op does autocross to start , hp 5.0 work very well.