Clutch disengagement issues

[Randy V.B.]

I checked my spacing on the clutch like in the video and it is exactly what the specs should be. The spines on the clutch only have about 100 miles on them and look perfect. The only thing I see abnormal looking is the spines on the input shaft but the chatter marks go the entire length so it must've been that way from factory? The desk does not slide on smoothly I don't call it. I made a video but I guess I can't post that on here. I think I'm going to take the transmission to the only shop around here four hours away tomorrow and see what they say


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[fz4k98]

i just had a new input shaft installed in my trans this week and it has the same machining marks on the new shaft as shown in your pictures. I am on clutch number 4 over time and I could see difference in the amount of play of the disk on the shaft from one clutch to another. With the clutch disk on the shaft, hold the outer edges and see if it wobbles by pushing one side forward and one side back like when you are removing a wheel from a car.

Loose clutch splines and dry splines were two items I ran into. Unfortunately, if the input shaft is bad, all the internals have to be removed on a tr6060 as it cannot come out the front.

[Randy V.B.]

Originally Posted by fz4k98

i just had a new input shaft installed in my trans this week and it has the same machining marks on the new shaft as shown in your pictures. I am on clutch number 4 over time and I could see difference in the amount of play of the disk on the shaft from one clutch to another. With the clutch disk on the shaft, hold the outer edges and see if it wobbles by pushing one side forward and one side back like when you are removing a wheel from a car.

Loose clutch splines and dry splines were two items I ran into. Unfortunately, if the input shaft is bad, all the internals have to be removed on a tr6060 as it cannot come out the front.

I have a fair amount of play grabbing the desk from the outside like you mentioned rocking it on the shaft. I have very little play back-and-forth like when I'm turning it on the splines. There seems to be the exact same amount of play on both instances on the entire length of the spline like there is no place worn more than the other. I have three different clutches here and all the desks wobble about the same amount on that spline.

That's good to know that the new shaft has those machine marks on it also, I've been trying to look online to see if a new one looked the same but you can't tell

And I was afraid of that it was going to be a complicated procedure to change that shaft. I may try to lube the spines lightly, put in a new slave cylinder and try it again.


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[FasNuf]

Wow, I didn't remember the input shaft machine chatter marks were there, good to know.
Are you using the GM slave? I know you said you took measurements like on the video but I didnt know if that was disk clearance or slave throwout.
edit: scratch that.I dont think that would be causing it to hang up sometimes and work great others...I really should think before I write.

[fz4k98]

The machining marks can be seen the entire spline area but not felt. The last clutch I put in, I appllied wheel bearing grease to the input shaft and worked the clutch disk back and forth. The feel definitely was smoother after working in the grease. On the dry input shaft it would bind if there was any side load but it would not bind once it had grease worked in.

I have not done the greasing on the new shaft yet but will be installing it on tuesday using the same method for greasing it. If you push the clutch along the input shaft in the center at the splines it would slide but pushing on one outer edge would apply the side load and cause it to bind when dry.

[Randy V.B.]

Originally Posted by FasNuf

Wow, I didn't remember the input shaft machine chatter marks were there, good to know.
Are you using the GM slave? I know you said you took measurements like on the video but I didnt know if that was disk clearance or slave throwout.
edit: scratch that.I dont think that would be causing it to hang up sometimes and work great others...I really should think before I write.

Yea I will be using a gm slave. I don't think that's the problem but I will put one in just to be safe. And yeah I checked only the clearance for the disk like in the video. Everything was even. I'm running out of ideas to check lol. I'm going to talk to a very popular transmission shop a ways from here and get their opinion before putting it back back together also. To me it just seems really dry and needs some lubrication on the shaft.


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[Randy V.B.]

Originally Posted by fz4k98

The machining marks can be seen the entire spline area but not felt. The last clutch I put in, I appllied wheel bearing grease to the input shaft and worked the clutch disk back and forth. The feel definitely was smoother after working in the grease. On the dry input shaft it would bind if there was any side load but it would not bind once it had grease worked in.

I have not done the greasing on the new shaft yet but will be installing it on tuesday using the same method for greasing it. If you push the clutch along the input shaft in the center at the splines it would slide but pushing on one outer edge would apply the side load and cause it to bind when dry.

Thanks very much for all your replies and help. I was doing some searching on the proper grease to put on and get multiple different answers. I honestly think that's what's going on. Any strain at all on the desk when trying to push it back-and-forth on the spines it binds easly. It seems like a little bit of grease would help that a lot


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[Joe.G]

Wouldn't the grease get gummy with clutch material and what ever other dust? How long would the grease really last on the shaft?

[fz4k98]

The amount of grease I used was not able to be seen and I made sure there was no excess other than the light film on the shaft and clutch splines. I pulled my transmission out this spring and there was no rust, no dryness and no residue on the shaft after about 10k miles. There was a lot of clutch dust everywhere but no build up on the shaft. I used a clutch to work it in, removed all excess and worked in another time and then removed all excess.

Please keep us posted on your results once you get it corrected.

[CamaroCracka]

Pretty sure the Mantic instructions said a light coat of grease on the input shaft. I could be wrong, but I did the same thing, sliding the clutch discs on to the input shaft to make sure they were all sliding freely. Of course I spray brake clean in there from time to time, so it might be long gone too.

[SSE 4 2SS]

I use lapping compound on the input shaft and clutch splines… sliding them back and forth until they move freely with no hangups or tight areas.

I looked at an image of my input shaft, (image below) 300M material, and while the image isn’t as up close as the OP’s, I don’t see the chatter marks, which could only come from the spline machining (cutting/rolling) process, or from clutch binding. If it were clutch binding, it wouldn’t be in the bottom of the valley as much as the walls of the valleys… I don’t think a cutter wheel would leave chatter marks like that, but I’m no expert… I’ll believe however, that for the clutch to bind enough to create chatter marks on the input shaft, regardless of material, the car would be basically un-driveable…

I also put a very thin film of lubricant on the input shaft splines… Thin enough such that the uninformed wouldn’t feel it…

And yes, I realize the shaft below is twisted… Builder of the trans said it could not be done, not with 300M material… I proved that hypothesis incorrect… We also as it turned out had twisted the internal shafts, the main shaft so badly they couldn’t remove some of the gears, so they chucked the whole shebang and started over…

Dead hook at 6500 rpm, Lucas Oil Raceway, the week after the US nationals… Track was sticky… my fault entirely…



Twisted shaft, 300M material, shaft is also significantly bigger than stock.



Input shaft, quad disc clutch hub and lapping compound as I start the process.



Repeatedly sliding the hub, feeling for any imperfections or hangups, as per the manufacturer.



Lapping completed, doing final cleanup and stack up, preparing to install…

I apologize for drifting off topic…

[Randy V.B.]

Well the verdict is in. After polishing the hell out of the splines and giving them a light coat of grease the clutch is smoother than it has been in the last two or three years. my last clutch I always had issues with it somewhat catching also so it must've been the same problem . I want to thank everybody for all the help and input on this problem.


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