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Old 02-05-2014, 02:06 PM   #31053
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Originally Posted by So Cal Camaro View Post
You might want to look at the policy exclusions...
I would agree with Dannie, I don't think any insurance will cover racing on a track unless you specify it and then they'd probably cancel on you lol

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Old 02-05-2014, 02:30 PM   #31054
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I called. They said I'm good. It's not a race.

i will look into the agreement more when i get home.
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:27 PM   #31055
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Originally Posted by Demon 1LE View Post
I called. They said I'm good. It's not a race.

i will look into the agreement more when i get home.
Just because your agent says it's covered, doesn't supersede the contract which is the insurance policy, which last time I read it(I have State Farm too, for 27 years), anything on a race track with timing involved is enough to exclude coverage based on my reading of the policy, which even includes autocross...

it's possible you might get it covered, as I have heard it happen, sometimes you get a claims adjuster that is good but you might also run into the claims adjuster that likes to read the policy literally and screw with people..

I do know companies that specifically provide track insurance, which is what the dude that racked the ZL1 at Fontana had from places like Lockton Affinity....

Hopefully you never have to find out if you have coverage for it.
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:44 PM   #31056
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Originally Posted by Demon 1LE View Post
I called. They said I'm good. It's not a race.

i will look into the agreement more when i get home.
I suggest reading the actual policy....The term "racing" can be interpreted several ways...(probably not in your favor)...lol...Look under the heading for "Exclusions"...

My policy is pretty clear, for "loss" or "bodily injury" coverage does not apply ..."During any organized or agreed-upon racing or speed contest or demonstration in which your insured car has active participation, or in practice or preparation for any such contest."

All other threads about this I have seen all say the same thing...that you aren't covered by your regular insurance at the track.....
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:45 PM   #31057
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Originally Posted by So Cal Camaro View Post
Just because your agent says it's covered, doesn't supersede the contract which is the insurance policy, which last time I read it(I have State Farm too, for 27 years), anything on a race track with timing involved is enough to exclude coverage based on my reading of the policy, which even includes autocross...

it's possible you might get it covered, as I have heard it happen, sometimes you get a claims adjuster that is good but you might also run into the claims adjuster that likes to read the policy literally and screw with people..

I do know companies that specifically provide track insurance, which is what the dude that racked the ZL1 at Fontana had from places like Lockton Affinity....

Hopefully you never have to find out if you have coverage for it.
Hey Dannie, Question for you. I am due for a new set of 315 rear tires for my Modulares and a new set of race tires for the other wheels.
Do you think it would be a good idea to skip the race tires and just run Micheline PSS's on my Modulares and use them for racing. I am going to spend the about the same amount of money if I do invo's on Modulare's and NT05's for the race set, but if I do this, I won't have to swap wheels everytime we race. Mark at Nitrous Garage doesn't think I should race with the Modulares, but I don't see the problem. I have an email into Peter to see what he says.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:00 PM   #31058
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Hey Dannie, Question for you. I am due for a new set of 315 rear tires for my Modulares and a new set of race tires for the other wheels.
Do you think it would be a good idea to skip the race tires and just run Micheline PSS's on my Modulares and use them for racing. I am going to spend the about the same amount of money if I do invo's on Modulare's and NT05's for the race set, but if I do this, I won't have to swap wheels everytime we race. Mark at Nitrous Garage doesn't think I should race with the Modulares, but I don't see the problem. I have an email into Peter to see what he says.
If you want to just use one set I would go with the Michelin's PSS's on your Modulare's...unless you're planning to run the big tracks, I'm not sure I would worry about running the Modulare's, as my Forgeline's have hidden hardware too. And Michelin's work way better than NT05's...issue I think you will have is need to check the diameter of the fronts to make sure they are close to rears, as I believe you have 9" fronts, which means a 275 front, need to make sure Michelin has a 275/40 that is close to the 315/35 rear so you don't have issues with stabilitrak.

Chuck, the 295/35-20's in the Ferrari XL105 configuration are 12" wide tread width, which is not far off the 315 width of 12.3, but they are shorter which with 275/35-20, you would be about .5" different in outside diameter...anyway, Michelin doesn't make a 275/40-20 from looking, so check the specs on other sizes to see what will match close enough in outside diameters.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:01 PM   #31059
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...A couple of other posts about the insurance stuff for your consideration...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503
Interesting....always wonder about this....even "non-racing" events still post lap times, in order, sort of like a "first place to last place" list...a faster lap time gets you placed towards the front of your run group...kind of makes it "competitive".....lol...

seems "racing" could be not totally clearly defined....or subject to interpretation....maybe not so bad for mechanical warranty as opposed (and hopefully not confused) with insurance and liability...lol....


An event host publicly displaying timing sheets runs the risk of causing their attendees track collision insurance (if they have it) to be voided. I understand exactly what you are referring to, for example Speed Ventures does that. It's still an HPDE event as the times are not for the explicit purpose of scoring a competitive event. A manufacturer should understand this as well and therefore these times should not affect warranty.

Cars in a Time Attack type event where cars run explicitly competitively for time would usually not be covered by warranty. Maybe you get lucky and the dealer covers it, but the door is open for a decline.

In regards to insurance (vs warranty): Anyone driving their car on a "racing surface" for any reason would be strongly advised to contact their insurance agent beforehand or to plan on being self-insured from the moment they do until they leave the "surface". There are a couple insurance companies who explicitly cover HPDE events such as Lockton-Affinity.

Someone will want to argue this but the 99% true fact is, unless your insurance extends incredible one-time goodwill, street insurance will not cover on-track crash damage.

None of this should a grey area for a given event when subjected to objective consideration, it should be easy and straightforward for a driver to determine what kind of risk he is subjecting himself to for a given event. An on-track crash, not covered by insurance, of a financed car can be a catastrophically life changing event. Don't trust internet know-it-alls, do your homework.

I've personally done over 100 track days with a variety of hosts and I've hosted my own events so what I write is from that perspective.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:09 PM   #31060
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good to know, thanks

link: http://locktonmotorsports.com/product/track-insurance/
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:30 PM   #31061
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If you're going to buy this, see if you can get a multiple event rate, it works out cheaper, because one day for a $40k car is about $200.00 when I checked...

And I know people that have had the regular car insurance company pay for on track crashes, and were summarily canceled right after, but it is a risk to hope they wlll cover and who wants a crashed/totaled $40k car without insurance to fix it or replace it.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:33 PM   #31062
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I'll take my chances without track insurance for auto-x events....but for faster tracks, with other cars right around you, I think it's worth the extra insurance, just in case....
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:40 PM   #31063
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I don't know if I'll do autox the 15th. I'm buying wheels, so I'd have to buy tires and a helmet. I'm gonna pass on this one
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:00 PM   #31064
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$295

this will be a rare event, ha ha.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:02 PM   #31065
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Originally Posted by So Cal Camaro View Post
If you want to just use one set I would go with the Michelin's PSS's on your Modulare's...unless you're planning to run the big tracks, I'm not sure I would worry about running the Modulare's, as my Forgeline's have hidden hardware too. And Michelin's work way better than NT05's...issue I think you will have is need to check the diameter of the fronts to make sure they are close to rears, as I believe you have 9" fronts, which means a 275 front, need to make sure Michelin has a 275/40 that is close to the 315/35 rear so you don't have issues with stabilitrak.

Chuck, the 295/35-20's in the Ferrari XL105 configuration are 12" wide tread width, which is not far off the 315 width of 12.3, but they are shorter which with 275/35-20, you would be about .5" different in outside diameter...anyway, Michelin doesn't make a 275/40-20 from looking, so check the specs on other sizes to see what will match close enough in outside diameters.
Thanks Dannie, your right, I don't see a 275/40/ 20 in the Michelines. Below is the answer I got from Peter at Modulare. I am not worried about using them for autocross either, but do want to do some more road races this year. I am looking at total diameter very carefully too. The 295 invo's I bought once did not look right at all. I want to stay around 28.7 like stock. Wish I could afford some 19 wheels/ race tires, but way too slow at work right now, so need to be thrifty.

from Peter at Modulare.
The wheels we build are limited to on-road use only....those are certified to SAE J2530 which is for street. Unfortunately, there is no way for us to test them for racing, so I would avoid racing on them and use the stock wheels for that.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:11 PM   #31066
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CT..ditch those nto5! Nt01 are the tire they make for tracks.

I think tires for tracks are as much a saftey issue as performance...those nt05 get greasy at road course temps.

Dannie should be a Michelin salesman
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