Provoking thoughtful discussion... Designing your own mufflers? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Jason@JacFab · 12-29-2013, 05:01 PM

I've watched what I feel like is hundreds of exhaust videos, and I'm not really excited about any of them. Out of all the videos I have watched the only one that I'm leaning toward is the MRT v2.0, but it's still not "doing it" for me.

In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason to do a catback on a v6 car. Performance gain (if any) would not be worth the money spent... Axlebacks are also ridiculously priced, for little to no performance gain... All we're trying to do here is change the sound. Make it sound like it's something worth a damn...

I'm not planning on spending thousands of dollars on this project, but I feel like I have the skills and tools available to try and make several axleback systems for the cost that I could pay for one "professionally" made system and more than likely end up not liking it... So why not make several that I won't like? Maybe I'll get lucky and come up with something good.

I built most of the exhaust components for my previous 2010 SS and I feel I was about 90% of the way I wanted it to sound... I think I can probably do the same for this 2LS with some trial and error... I understand that it will probably never sound like a v8, but a guy can dream, right?

So with that said... I've looked at a butt load of muffler design articles, and unfortunately can't find what I want to do, which is basically building some kind of "echo chamber" into the muffler to hopefully make the exhaust sound like it's an 8 cylinder engine... That's the ultimate goal here, but it will probably never happen...

So for my first attempt at making a set of mufflers, I will be making a set of DIY glass pack mufflers (maybe with a twist), and put them on just for kicks. Should be an easy job without too much thought required. I'll post a video when it's done so we can see what happens. I'm ordering most of the stuff today, give me 2-3 weeks as this isn't really a big priority at the moment.

Thoughtful discussion is encouraged, think we'd all like to know how to make this v6 sound REALLY good. I have little to no desire to try and sell you guys this, but if you hear something you like along the way, feel free to try and duplicate it.

KMPrenger · 12-29-2013, 05:47 PM

I can dig this discussion.

You speak of cost....I like to think I save myself hundreds by just piecing together mufflers instead of buying a kit catback exhaust. I liked the Magnaflow catback because of the deep tone, minimal drone, and no rasp. The downside is that it is a middle of the road exhaust as far as growl and mean goes at best...in fact I'd consider mine to be a bit more on the tame end. But again I love the tone, and inside the cabin it sounds great. I bought the magnaflow tips, mufflers, and resonated X pipe....basically the same as the kit uses and had it installed for a good 3 to 4 hundred less than the cost of the catback at that time and I think I got 80 - 90% the same sound.

I'm fairly certain you can get the MRT2.0 mufflers, and from there you could do your own pipes and tips possibly for less than the kit. Not sure, but I thought the mufflers were called Aero AR25s or something like that....but I think that might be the MRT1 muffler so don't take that to heart lol.

For me, the absolute best sounding V6 exhaust (on this particular car), is taking something with a deep and mellow tone...like my exhaust, or say the ARK DTS or anything like that and pairing it with headers. Suddenly you have a V6 with awesome growl, low tones, and barely any rasp. Pair headers with an exhaust that is mean on its own, and you have something really loud and raspy. That's what I feel my car is missing now....its just not really mean enough sounding. I don't really want it a lot louder...just more rumble in the exhaust note.

LFX can't do headers so that's out the window, but I think a similar approach is the best idea. Either cutting off the two rear cats, or going with high flows will give you a little of the same affect that headers would have on the LLT. Pair that up with something that has good potential, but is controlled would be my approach

A magnaflow reasonated X muffler would be the control....keeping the rasp and some drone at bay. From there, open it up a bit with 2.5" exhaust. Out back, throw on a pair of dynomax or magnaflow "bullet" style mufflers. If you love the sound, but hate the drone, kill that drone with Helmholtz pipes. If its too loud, replace the bullets with larger, but maybe not too large oval style mufflers.

KMPrenger · 12-29-2013, 05:48 PM

By the way...best of luck with your exhaust goals. I love to see people try new things.

meissen · 12-29-2013, 08:51 PM

I like this thread.

I wouldn't mind doing exhaust on my 5th gen, but I refuse to spend the money that the kits are demanding.

KaBoom1701 · 12-29-2013, 09:28 PM

Sweet.

I like my MR2 x X-Pipe sound but I'm all for this!

RoadieWingZ · 12-29-2013, 11:12 PM

Jason.....Have you thought about gutting and modifying stock muffler cans as part of this experiment? Cut an access plate on top, do some magic in welding / cutting / packing internals, then weld top access plate back on and voila! a sleeper-looking muffler with some rumble.... Just a thought as I'm familiar with similar approaches used by cruiser motorcyclists when they want more rumble without spending $$ on new muffler cans or headers. Done right, I've heard impressive improvements on a shoestring budget.... A person can make some good pocket change modifying stock mufflers with core swaps for people without the tools or desire to make the mods themselves. Just sayin....

Airmaster · 12-30-2013, 12:56 AM

Like the sounds of this. Maybe you could work something out with the cats too. Deleting them/swapping for different ones could maybe help with sound.... idk

vicredLS · 12-30-2013, 09:29 AM

Maybe try an old school turbo muffler design,I have a set of Thrush turbos on mine & they do a great job of taking out that high pitched V-6 sound & also that V-6 rasp.They give a deep rumble at idle & acceleration but no drone at all at highway & cruising speeds.They are not much louder than stock if at all but they do change the tone,definatley not a traditional V-6 sound.

DSX_Camaro · 12-30-2013, 10:32 AM

I too love the sound of the Magnaflow system, but only for the deep tone. It seems a bit weak on growl and loudness, and might be too smooth? I was personally going to do an NPP conversion, but I can't get myself to justify the cost... but I probably wouldn't consider a different system because the NPP has 2 different tones essentially.

The biggest problem is the lack of headers, which would allow for a much throatier sound with (relatively) minimal effort. So the problem, I guess, is having an exhaust that would play upon the firing sound of the 60° V6 (again, the 90° and inline 6s would sound better). It seems that you either have volume and rasp or no rasp and low volume, but then, I would guess you would have the most luck out of anyone.

DSX_Camaro · 12-30-2013, 10:39 AM

Another question I've had - would 2.5" mid-pipes make a difference? IIRC the V6 has 2.25" past the H pipe.

Jason@JacFab · 12-30-2013, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadieWingZ

Jason.....Have you thought about gutting and modifying stock muffler cans as part of this experiment? Cut an access plate on top, do some magic in welding / cutting / packing internals, then weld top access plate back on and voila! a sleeper-looking muffler with some rumble.... Just a thought as I'm familiar with similar approaches used by cruiser motorcyclists when they want more rumble without spending $$ on new muffler cans or headers. Done right, I've heard impressive improvements on a shoestring budget.... A person can make some good pocket change modifying stock mufflers with core swaps for people without the tools or desire to make the mods themselves. Just sayin....

I hadn't really thought about it. I have a couple sets I could mess with, but in the end, I would rather just make something new personally. The weight loss from junking the stock mufflers is something else I like about changing them out...

Some food for thought though, here is a picture of the innards of an L99 muffer.

Supposedly the only diff between the LS3 muffler and the L99 muffler is that the L99 muffler has a hemholtz resonator pipe built in, where as the LS3 muffler does not.

I can see cutting the inlet pipe right after it enters the chamber, and eliminating the 90 deg bend, weld some baffles in it to make a ghetto flowmaster sounding muffer? Would still be heavy though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airmaster

Like the sounds of this. Maybe you could work something out with the cats too. Deleting them/swapping for different ones could maybe help with sound.... idk

I will eventually get around to making a set of high flow cats for the car as well... I should probably do that first rather than chasing sound now, then changing the cats and being back to square one.

dmginc · 12-30-2013, 05:14 PM

chambered systems always sounded nice on v8's, only find a couple of videos for the v6. i know stainless works make a system but i have a hard time wanting to pay a grand for it...then i look at axle backs and i will not spend that much for an axle back...resonator delete, magnaflow x-pipe, mrt v1 would sound nice...

skibik · 12-31-2013, 09:54 AM

Before I bought my 1LT last year I knew I was going to have to change the way it sounded. After spending close to 2 hours listening to video clips I narrowed it down to the V2's. Now I have to say that after all the clips I listened to they don't do the systems any justice. I just chose which one sounded the best in the clips.

In your quest I do hope you find the exhaust sound you like. When you post the different video/sound clips you will realize the difference in the sound from your clip versus in person. Even mine doesn't sound that great on video but I think it sounds sweet in person.

Dean.

Jason@JacFab · 12-31-2013, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skibik

In your quest I do hope you find the exhaust sound you like. When you post the different video/sound clips you will realize the difference in the sound from your clip versus in person. Even mine doesn't sound that great on video but I think it sounds sweet in person.

Dean.

Yup, you can watch the same exhaust on 10 different youtube videos and it will sound different in almost every one... If I start watching a video that was shot on a poor quality camera, or the camera is too close to the exhaust "blowing out" the microphone, I just turn it off...

I feel I get a decent representation of my exhaust sound with my camera in my videos, but as you said, it's never going to sound the same on video as it will in person.

So after giving quite a bit of thought to how I'm going to approach this project, It occurred to me that for the ultimate in $$, and time savings, I can make a "shell" of a muffler with different "cores" that can bolt in to change the sound... This way I can reuse the same "shell" over and over, and make different bolt in cores of different styles much cheaper than say making a new muffler every single time... Sounds really good in my mind, I just have to sit down and design it... I should have some Solidworks drawings in a few days that I will post up once I figure out how I want to go about it. Should be a very cool project that will allow me to change out the sound quickly, and easily whenever/however I desire.

12-29-2013, 05:01 PM	#1
Jason@JacFab Drives: 2016 1LT RS Camaro; 72 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Point, OR Posts: 5,688 View My Garage	Provoking thoughtful discussion... Designing your own mufflers? I've watched what I feel like is hundreds of exhaust videos, and I'm not really excited about any of them. Out of all the videos I have watched the only one that I'm leaning toward is the MRT v2.0, but it's still not "doing it" for me. In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason to do a catback on a v6 car. Performance gain (if any) would not be worth the money spent... Axlebacks are also ridiculously priced, for little to no performance gain... All we're trying to do here is change the sound. Make it sound like it's something worth a damn... I'm not planning on spending thousands of dollars on this project, but I feel like I have the skills and tools available to try and make several axleback systems for the cost that I could pay for one "professionally" made system and more than likely end up not liking it... So why not make several that I won't like? Maybe I'll get lucky and come up with something good. I built most of the exhaust components for my previous 2010 SS and I feel I was about 90% of the way I wanted it to sound... I think I can probably do the same for this 2LS with some trial and error... I understand that it will probably never sound like a v8, but a guy can dream, right? So with that said... I've looked at a butt load of muffler design articles, and unfortunately can't find what I want to do, which is basically building some kind of "echo chamber" into the muffler to hopefully make the exhaust sound like it's an 8 cylinder engine... That's the ultimate goal here, but it will probably never happen... So for my first attempt at making a set of mufflers, I will be making a set of DIY glass pack mufflers (maybe with a twist), and put them on just for kicks. Should be an easy job without too much thought required. I'll post a video when it's done so we can see what happens. I'm ordering most of the stuff today, give me 2-3 weeks as this isn't really a big priority at the moment. Thoughtful discussion is encouraged, think we'd all like to know how to make this v6 sound REALLY good. I have little to no desire to try and sell you guys this, but if you hear something you like along the way, feel free to try and duplicate it.

12-29-2013, 05:47 PM	#2
KMPrenger Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado Join Date: May 2009 Location: Jefferson City, Missouri Posts: 13,943	I can dig this discussion. You speak of cost....I like to think I save myself hundreds by just piecing together mufflers instead of buying a kit catback exhaust. I liked the Magnaflow catback because of the deep tone, minimal drone, and no rasp. The downside is that it is a middle of the road exhaust as far as growl and mean goes at best...in fact I'd consider mine to be a bit more on the tame end. But again I love the tone, and inside the cabin it sounds great. I bought the magnaflow tips, mufflers, and resonated X pipe....basically the same as the kit uses and had it installed for a good 3 to 4 hundred less than the cost of the catback at that time and I think I got 80 - 90% the same sound. I'm fairly certain you can get the MRT2.0 mufflers, and from there you could do your own pipes and tips possibly for less than the kit. Not sure, but I thought the mufflers were called Aero AR25s or something like that....but I think that might be the MRT1 muffler so don't take that to heart lol. For me, the absolute best sounding V6 exhaust (on this particular car), is taking something with a deep and mellow tone...like my exhaust, or say the ARK DTS or anything like that and pairing it with headers. Suddenly you have a V6 with awesome growl, low tones, and barely any rasp. Pair headers with an exhaust that is mean on its own, and you have something really loud and raspy. That's what I feel my car is missing now....its just not really mean enough sounding. I don't really want it a lot louder...just more rumble in the exhaust note. LFX can't do headers so that's out the window, but I think a similar approach is the best idea. Either cutting off the two rear cats, or going with high flows will give you a little of the same affect that headers would have on the LLT. Pair that up with something that has good potential, but is controlled would be my approach A magnaflow reasonated X muffler would be the control....keeping the rasp and some drone at bay. From there, open it up a bit with 2.5" exhaust. Out back, throw on a pair of dynomax or magnaflow "bullet" style mufflers. If you love the sound, but hate the drone, kill that drone with Helmholtz pipes. If its too loud, replace the bullets with larger, but maybe not too large oval style mufflers. __________________ 2016 Camaro 1SS - 8-speed - NPP - Black bowties 2010 Camaro 1LT V6 (Sold. I will miss her!)

12-29-2013, 05:48 PM	#3
KMPrenger Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado Join Date: May 2009 Location: Jefferson City, Missouri Posts: 13,943	By the way...best of luck with your exhaust goals. I love to see people try new things. __________________ 2016 Camaro 1SS - 8-speed - NPP - Black bowties 2010 Camaro 1LT V6 (Sold. I will miss her!)

12-29-2013, 08:51 PM	#4
meissen Founder - Michigan FBody Drives: 1994 Camaro LT1, 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: New Haven, MI Posts: 2,599	I like this thread. I wouldn't mind doing exhaust on my 5th gen, but I refuse to spend the money that the kits are demanding. __________________ 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS L99 - *"Zooma"* 1994 Camaro LT1 A4 - *"Red Alert"* - v6-to-LT1 Swapped Cruiser; Cammed, Stalled, Enjoyed "Gone But Not Forgotten" 2016 Camaro 1LT A8 - "Elmo" 2014 Camaro 1LT M6 - "Cherry Bomb" 2012 Camaro 1LS M6 - "Clifford" Michigan FBody Association http://www.mifbody.com/

12-29-2013, 09:28 PM	#5
KaBoom1701 KaBoom1701 Drives: 13' ZL1 Red M6 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: I.E. SoCal (Yucaipa) Posts: 8,630	Sweet. I like my MR2 x X-Pipe sound but I'm all for this! __________________ Mods: Roto-Fab Intake, WW Res. kit & Big Gulp Air Scoop, Elite Catch Can, ATI Super Damper & 18% OD Pulley, LF Idler pulley bracket, Metco CC breather, ID850 Injectors, Stainless Power Headers w/ ceramic coating, TR71X Spark Plugs, JMS Fuel Pump Booster, Bo White TB, Tuned by Ted @ Jannetty Racing, Ron Davis HX, D3 Reservoir, Pfadt 1" Springs, Moreno Camber Plates, ZL1 Addons Splitter guard washers, Tow Hook kit & rock guards, Hurst Shifter Billet Plus 6 Speed Short Shifter, ZL1 DRL lighting harness, ZL1 Recaro Seats.

12-29-2013, 11:12 PM	#6
RoadieWingZ Drives: 2013 Black Camaro 1LS Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 409 View My Garage	Jason.....Have you thought about gutting and modifying stock muffler cans as part of this experiment? Cut an access plate on top, do some magic in welding / cutting / packing internals, then weld top access plate back on and voila! a sleeper-looking muffler with some rumble.... Just a thought as I'm familiar with similar approaches used by cruiser motorcyclists when they want more rumble without spending $$ on new muffler cans or headers. Done right, I've heard impressive improvements on a shoestring budget.... A person can make some good pocket change modifying stock mufflers with core swaps for people without the tools or desire to make the mods themselves. Just sayin.... __________________ *2013 Camaro LS*

12-30-2013, 12:56 AM	#7
Airmaster Go Gators! Drives: Camaro Jeep Abarth 944 325i Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: CT Posts: 844	Like the sounds of this. Maybe you could work something out with the cats too. Deleting them/swapping for different ones could maybe help with sound.... idk __________________ '13 Camaro, '97 Wrangler, '12 500 Abarth, '85.5 944, '06 325i Suspension Mods: BMR and JPSS Sways, BMR Poly Bushings, BMR strut tower brace, BMR control arms, BMR toe arms, stock springs and struts Engine Mods: All bolt ons (haha) Brake Mods: Brembo SS caliper swap front and rear

12-30-2013, 09:29 AM	#8
vicredLS Drives: 2012 LS Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: LaGrange,G.A. Posts: 66	Maybe try an old school turbo muffler design,I have a set of Thrush turbos on mine & they do a great job of taking out that high pitched V-6 sound & also that V-6 rasp.They give a deep rumble at idle & acceleration but no drone at all at highway & cruising speeds.They are not much louder than stock if at all but they do change the tone,definatley not a traditional V-6 sound.

12-30-2013, 10:32 AM	#9
DSX_Camaro Drives: 2013 SW 2LT/RS LFX/AY6 Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,741	I too love the sound of the Magnaflow system, but only for the deep tone. It seems a bit weak on growl and loudness, and might be too smooth? I was personally going to do an NPP conversion, but I can't get myself to justify the cost... but I probably wouldn't consider a different system because the NPP has 2 different tones essentially. The biggest problem is the lack of headers, which would allow for a much throatier sound with (relatively) minimal effort. So the problem, I guess, is having an exhaust that would play upon the firing sound of the 60° V6 (again, the 90° and inline 6s would sound better). It seems that you either have volume and rasp or no rasp and low volume, but then, I would guess you would have the most luck out of anyone. __________________ K&N CAI, 1LE Strut Tower Brace, Elite Engineering Catch Can and Clean Side Separator, Apex Scoop w/ Washer Relocation Kit, CTS Front Calipers and Rotors, JacFab Ported Intake Manifold, JacFab Intake Manifold Spacer, 80mm Overkill Throttle Body, SS Brake Lines, Ideal Garage Master Cylinder, Monster Twin Disc Clutch, NPP Retrofit w/ Magnaflow Resonated X, ARH Catless Downpipes, JRE Built 3.45 Diff, 1LE Axles, 1LE Hubs, Overkill Tuned, BMR Anti Wheel-hop Kit Stage I, ACS TL1 Hood Insert, ZL1 Spoiler

12-30-2013, 10:39 AM	#10
DSX_Camaro Drives: 2013 SW 2LT/RS LFX/AY6 Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,741	Another question I've had - would 2.5" mid-pipes make a difference? IIRC the V6 has 2.25" past the H pipe. __________________ K&N CAI, 1LE Strut Tower Brace, Elite Engineering Catch Can and Clean Side Separator, Apex Scoop w/ Washer Relocation Kit, CTS Front Calipers and Rotors, JacFab Ported Intake Manifold, JacFab Intake Manifold Spacer, 80mm Overkill Throttle Body, SS Brake Lines, Ideal Garage Master Cylinder, Monster Twin Disc Clutch, NPP Retrofit w/ Magnaflow Resonated X, ARH Catless Downpipes, JRE Built 3.45 Diff, 1LE Axles, 1LE Hubs, Overkill Tuned, BMR Anti Wheel-hop Kit Stage I, ACS TL1 Hood Insert, ZL1 Spoiler

12-30-2013, 05:14 PM	#12
dmginc Drives: In Circles Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,433 View My Garage	chambered systems always sounded nice on v8's, only find a couple of videos for the v6. i know stainless works make a system but i have a hard time wanting to pay a grand for it...then i look at axle backs and i will not spend that much for an axle back...resonator delete, magnaflow x-pipe, mrt v1 would sound nice... __________________ CAI Cold Air Intake, BMR Strut Tower Brace, BMR 1.2" Lowering Springs Gen5DIY Fog Lights, Big Worm Third Brake Light/Side Marker Tint (Charcoal) GTS Tail Light Covers, Purple Under Hood Lighting Magnaflow Resonated X-Pipe w/ Muffler Delete Black Plasti Dipped Wheels, Z/28 Spoiler

12-31-2013, 09:54 AM	#13
skibik Guest Drives: bbbbbb Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: bfe Posts: 713	Before I bought my 1LT last year I knew I was going to have to change the way it sounded. After spending close to 2 hours listening to video clips I narrowed it down to the V2's. Now I have to say that after all the clips I listened to they don't do the systems any justice. I just chose which one sounded the best in the clips. In your quest I do hope you find the exhaust sound you like. When you post the different video/sound clips you will realize the difference in the sound from your clip versus in person. Even mine doesn't sound that great on video but I think it sounds sweet in person. Dean.