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Old 07-01-2018, 03:07 PM   #99
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Dodge is playing the only card they can and itís the same one they used in 2015 on the exact same car. Ford and Chevy will be coming out with gen7 soon so Dodge dropped more power into a car that already canít handle what it has.

Chevy made a quantum leap in 2016 with the Alpha Camaro. It took Ford two years to narrow the gap with the GT, going on five years since last GT500 and Dodge isnít even in the same conversation. The SS, 1LE, ZL1 and ZL1 1LE are three dimensional, world class. Dodge isnít in the same sandbox.
Dodge, by their own admission, only cares about one dimension.

They are good at that one dimension and sell a lot of cars to people who only care about that dimension.

Which brings up an interesting philosophical question - Would you rather be all around world class, or the best in the world at one thing?
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Old 07-01-2018, 03:33 PM   #100
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Dodge is playing the only card they can and itís the same one they used in 2015 on the exact same car. Ford and Chevy will be coming out with gen7 soon so Dodge dropped more power into a car that already canít handle what it has.

Chevy made a quantum leap in 2016 with the Alpha Camaro. It took Ford two years to narrow the gap with the GT, going on five years since last GT500 and Dodge isnít even in the same conversation. The SS, 1LE, ZL1 and ZL1 1LE are three dimensional, world class. Dodge isnít in the same sandbox.
And yet they have no problems selling cars.

It seems really, really difficult for Chevy die-hards to understand that people buy Challengers, knowing all this, and are generally very happy with them.
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Old 07-01-2018, 10:14 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotlap View Post
Dodge is playing the only card they can and itís the same one they used in 2015 on the exact same car. Ford and Chevy will be coming out with gen7 soon so Dodge dropped more power into a car that already canít handle what it has.

Chevy made a quantum leap in 2016 with the Alpha Camaro. It took Ford two years to narrow the gap with the GT, going on five years since last GT500 and Dodge isnít even in the same conversation. The SS, 1LE, ZL1 and ZL1 1LE are three dimensional, world class. Dodge isnít in the same sandbox.
I bet the Hellcat Redeye will outsell the ZL1 1LE..

since Hellcat has outsold ZL1 so far, and will probably continue to.

Challenger has the muscle car segment to itself, and its relishing the opportunity.
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Old 07-02-2018, 04:37 AM   #102
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I bet the Hellcat Redeye will outsell the ZL1 1LE..

since Hellcat has outsold ZL1 so far, and will probably continue to.

Challenger has the muscle car segment to itself, and its relishing the opportunity.
Where is your sales data by model ? Ive never seen any manufacturer make that info public.
That would be interesting to see.
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Old 07-02-2018, 04:50 AM   #103
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I love how many people that are supposed to be car guys are aguring against a company putting more power in their cars. Haha. Dodge is the only real muscle car left in the world if you truly understand the muscle car wars in the 60s and very early 70s. WGAF if the chassis is old or can handle the power or not. They are bassass looking, sound great and will scare the hell out of your passengers. Excatly what a muscle car should be. You can say what you want, but its damn impressive that Dodge keeps reinventing this "old" platform while their sales keep going up year after year. That should tell GM and Ford that it isnt all about the clock, refinement or the technology you throw at it in this segment.
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Old 07-02-2018, 06:23 AM   #104
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FCA's finances are in the toilet. They've been trying to dump Dodge for years, but nobody will buy them. When you don't have the finances to engineer a new vehicle, I suppose just keep on putting more and more horsepower into a 10 year old design that weighs more than a 3/4 ton pickup.
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Old 07-02-2018, 06:51 AM   #105
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Where is your sales data by model ? Ive never seen any manufacturer make that info public.
That would be interesting to see.
It can be derived from R.L. Polk registration data segmented by hp. Iíve seen the Camaro splits. 650 hp stands out. Likewise with the Challenger splits, 707 would stand out.
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Old 07-02-2018, 07:23 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by DRKS1D3 View Post
FCA's finances are in the toilet. They've been trying to dump Dodge for years, but nobody will buy them. When you don't have the finances to engineer a new vehicle, I suppose just keep on putting more and more horsepower into a 10 year old design that weighs more than a 3/4 ton pickup.
Read what Motorhead say above your comment
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Old 07-02-2018, 07:52 AM   #107
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Read what Motorhead say above your comment
Settle down, it is a subjective topic. They're forced to work with what their meager finances allow. It is what it is. At least they're still putting out cars instead of closing up shop. Competition among rivals breeds success. With GM, Ford and Dodge all competing, the consumer wins. Drive whichever you like.
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Old 07-02-2018, 09:17 AM   #108
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I bet the Hellcat Redeye will outsell the ZL1 1LE..

since Hellcat has outsold ZL1 so far, and will probably continue to.

Challenger has the muscle car segment to itself, and its relishing the opportunity.
You make is sound like Dodge is playing a winning hand when they are just doing enough to hold on.

Here are the only sales numbers I've seen. The 2017 totals for the segment. Dodge started the first quarter strong then too. Fleet months?

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498 (-$4,016)
Mustang: $33,792 (-$5,722)

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581 (-4641)
Challenger: 45,821 (-19,401)


Total Sales 2017
Mustang 81,866
Camaro 67,940 (-13,926)
Challenger 64,537 (-17,329)

Percentage of Total Sales that are Fleet/Rental 2017
Camaro 4%
Mustang 26% (+22%)
Challenger 29% (+25%)
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Old 07-02-2018, 09:56 AM   #109
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Just a reminder.....The 2nd Quarter has ended....Hopefully we will see GM's last three months of sales soon....Not sure how Challenger and Mustang sales have been for the last three months....should be interesting, though....we'll see how Camaro has been doing....
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:00 AM   #110
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Some interesting notes from the rollout of these cars.

Scatpack Widebody - 12:10s 1/4 mile (would be faster than advertised GT & SS times)
Hellcat - 11:10s 1/4 mile (faster than advertised ZL1, GT500?)
Hellcat Widebody - 10:90s
Hellcat Redline - 10:80s

If the above is correct Dodge presently has the 1/4 mile times covered.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:44 AM   #111
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Just a reminder.....The 2nd Quarter has ended....Hopefully we will see GM's last three months of sales soon....Not sure how Challenger and Mustang sales have been for the last three months....should be interesting, though....we'll see how Camaro has been doing....
Mustang April May June 23,264
Challenger 19,719

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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:52 AM   #112
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I can't speak for a ZL1 but.....

I've made the decision to sell my car and buy a HC. I actually have an 18 WB ordered in B5 blue. Then they released the "Redeye" option so dealer and I are in talks, but ultimately I'll be ordering the Redeye.

My car is fine but it's nowhere near a HC and to take it to the next level performance wise would be about $25k and I'd still have a 7 year old car. Life is short, so...

One of the great things about the HC is there aren't issues with a lot of the parts that typically have to be upgraded in Camaros (or at least the 5th gens). Shortblock is good, trans is good, diff is good.....

And as someone pointed out earlier....

For just a little money you can make a lot more HP.
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