EFR 7163 - Standalone Build - Page 2

brlcla · 07-14-2018, 11:32 AM

I was just talking... as I haven't verified internals... but yes its a piston driven "plunger" pump by that image you provided (same primciple positive displacement design)... interesting to see there is an eventual leakage path down the shaft into the cylinder head over time as the plunger to pump cylinder clearance wears (cylinder material may be ceramic)... so curious what the lower seal assembly materials are on the sprung end. But ECU should throw a code for fuel pressure issues hopefully by the time that happens or you will get fuel into the oil, but we have some small amount of blowby already in these motors.

interesting they actuate the suction via a solenoid to limit flow which limits rail pressure... appears to internal relief goes back to suction side or the piston area when high pressure rail exceeds the relief set pressure.

Diaphragm shape on top would be pulsation dampening likely... as high speed plunger pumps have a tendency to create significant pulsation swings that can throw off instrumentation. or it could be last resort rupture disk in case of major malfunction to relief to atmosphere

Jason@JacFab · 07-14-2018, 01:55 PM

Yes, these pumps are indeed very interesting. Looking at pictures of mazda DI HPFP upgrades, assuming they are similar to the GM pumps, the cylinder and piston appear to not have any kind of seal, or rings, just looks to be metal on metal. Most of these "upgrade" kits, including the LPE big bore assemble, are using a DLC coating on their units.

brlcla · 07-15-2018, 07:52 AM

DLCs and Cobalt impregnate works well. We have a 21,000psi plunger pump that has ceramics and most of your pressure washers have DLCs or some hardned coating to prevent gauling and wear. Only difference is you see your everyday high pressure water pumps leak like crazy.

The grooves in the lower plunger in the what you sent make me think there is a "plunger cooling" passage that likely recirculates back to suction... meaning there is some leakage that goes down the plunger on purpose to keep it cool and some level of lubrication on the lower shaft.

brlcla · 07-17-2018, 04:49 PM

Well... got some data from Nordstrum (XDI) today... 290lph @ 7000 on the XDI-35. Stock cam lobe 4mm stroke. More than enough to support 500-550HP+... curious where my air flow limitations on stock cam and valves are gonna be and if anyone is seeing valve float at higher boost levels.

The juice (price tag) may be worth the squeeze!

cooper1965 · 07-18-2018, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brlcla

Well... got some data from Nordstrum (XDI) today... 290lph @ 7000 on the XDI-35. Stock cam lobe 4mm stroke. More than enough to support 500-550HP+... curious where my air flow limitations on stock cam and valves are gonna be and if anyone is seeing valve float at higher boost levels.

The juice (price tag) may be worth the squeeze!

That awesome! Id sure prefer that route over meth or some multi-port system. How bad is that price tag?

Jason@JacFab · 07-18-2018, 10:37 AM

Last I heard it was somewhere around $1850 for the XDI-35 and $2650 for the XDI-60...

I'm looking at these XDI pictures realllll close, While there aren't many good shots, and I'm sure for good reason... The main body of those pumps look just like a square body lt1 fuel pump, just modifed, and their black part for the fuel inlet/outlet bolts on sooo... And they have the same electrical connector, same orientation, they are making a harness to go from whatever factory plug to the XDI unit... I'm thinking its just a modified stock pump. Although I'm sure a lot of work goes into it, I've never bought into the price tag, even at the "discounted, we'll send you the stuff, you do the R&D to make it work on your car" price.

I think I'm on to something here... My LT1 fuel pump I puchased off ebay will be here Friday. I'll get to work, this is intriguing.

cooper1965 · 07-27-2018, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

I think I'm on to something here... My LT1 fuel pump I puchased off ebay will be here Friday. I'll get to work, this is intriguing.

Hey Jason, please tell me you think there is some hope on this. Ive been looking at the two pumps side by side for 3 days on my desk.. Im at a loss for any ideals.

Jason@JacFab · 07-27-2018, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooper1965

Hey Jason, please tell me you think there is some hope on this. Ive been looking at the two pumps side by side for 3 days on my desk.. Im at a loss for any ideals.

There is hope

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DarkFangz1100 · 07-27-2018, 02:15 PM

So, I understand the point of the post but I had a question for y'all more knowledgeable people....Hellion uses PT6266 on the SS for a TT setup....would it be possible to squeeze that onto an LTG with the appropriate compressor housing?

brlcla · 07-31-2018, 07:38 PM

I am no expert but that 66mm turbine wheel may hurt spool time some... 58mm or 63mm seems to be most of what I see being recommended and that PT6266 is rated at 750hp which is way more airflow than you'll need. just my $0.02

DatsunBob · 08-02-2018, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFangz1100

So, I understand the point of the post but I had a question for y'all more knowledgeable people....Hellion uses PT6266 on the SS for a TT setup....would it be possible to squeeze that onto an LTG with the appropriate compressor housing?

Yeah, you could fit any turbo on any engine given enough effort. But why that one?

On a 2.0l it wouldn't even start to spool until 4500rpms. You'd likely have a 400whp rush once it did in a matter of 1000rpms. Essentially useless unless dedicated drag.

DarkFangz1100 · 08-02-2018, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DatsunBob

Yeah, you could fit any turbo on any engine given enough effort. But why that one?

On a 2.0l it wouldn't even start to spool until 4500rpms. You'd likely have a 400whp rush once it did in a matter of 1000rpms. Essentially useless unless dedicated drag.

Hellion HLX upgrade...love the spool lol

ryansalazan24 · 08-03-2018, 10:36 AM

In the cobalt world, they hav been using the lt1 and lt4 hpfp for a little bit now as an upgrade and has shown really good feedback! I believe even zzp does this as well but with a better spring from what the description says and have it priced at a much more modest $700. I guess someone should ask when or if they will have one for the ltg platform. https://zzperformance.com/ecotec/fue...l-pump-upgrade

brlcla · 08-03-2018, 11:55 AM

ZZP is working on LTG HPFP... next year I was told! Their 7163 ZFR version I was told will be end of summer early fall release.

07-14-2018, 11:32 AM	#15
brlcla Drives: 1.4T Airboat, 2.0T Airboat (soon) Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Louisiana Posts: 29	I was just talking... as I haven't verified internals... but yes its a piston driven "plunger" pump by that image you provided (same primciple positive displacement design)... interesting to see there is an eventual leakage path down the shaft into the cylinder head over time as the plunger to pump cylinder clearance wears (cylinder material may be ceramic)... so curious what the lower seal assembly materials are on the sprung end. But ECU should throw a code for fuel pressure issues hopefully by the time that happens or you will get fuel into the oil, but we have some small amount of blowby already in these motors. interesting they actuate the suction via a solenoid to limit flow which limits rail pressure... appears to internal relief goes back to suction side or the piston area when high pressure rail exceeds the relief set pressure. Diaphragm shape on top would be pulsation dampening likely... as high speed plunger pumps have a tendency to create significant pulsation swings that can throw off instrumentation. or it could be last resort rupture disk in case of major malfunction to relief to atmosphere Last edited by brlcla; 07-14-2018 at 12:06 PM.

07-17-2018, 04:49 PM	#18
brlcla Drives: 1.4T Airboat, 2.0T Airboat (soon) Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Louisiana Posts: 29	Well... got some data from Nordstrum (XDI) today... 290lph @ 7000 on the XDI-35. Stock cam lobe 4mm stroke. More than enough to support 500-550HP+... curious where my air flow limitations on stock cam and valves are gonna be and if anyone is seeing valve float at higher boost levels. The juice (price tag) may be worth the squeeze! Last edited by brlcla; 07-17-2018 at 07:24 PM.

07-27-2018, 02:15 PM	#23
DarkFangz1100 Drives: 2016 Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 676 View My Garage	So, I understand the point of the post but I had a question for y'all more knowledgeable people....Hellion uses PT6266 on the SS for a TT setup....would it be possible to squeeze that onto an LTG with the appropriate compressor housing? __________________ Car Journal

07-14-2018, 01:55 PM	#16
Jason@JacFab Drives: 2016 1LT RS Camaro; 72 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Point, OR Posts: 5,688 View My Garage	Yes, these pumps are indeed very interesting. Looking at pictures of mazda DI HPFP upgrades, assuming they are similar to the GM pumps, the cylinder and piston appear to not have any kind of seal, or rings, just looks to be metal on metal. Most of these "upgrade" kits, including the LPE big bore assemble, are using a DLC coating on their units.

07-15-2018, 07:52 AM	#17
brlcla Drives: 1.4T Airboat, 2.0T Airboat (soon) Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Louisiana Posts: 29	DLCs and Cobalt impregnate works well. We have a 21,000psi plunger pump that has ceramics and most of your pressure washers have DLCs or some hardned coating to prevent gauling and wear. Only difference is you see your everyday high pressure water pumps leak like crazy. The grooves in the lower plunger in the what you sent make me think there is a "plunger cooling" passage that likely recirculates back to suction... meaning there is some leakage that goes down the plunger on purpose to keep it cool and some level of lubrication on the lower shaft.

07-18-2018, 10:37 AM	#20
Jason@JacFab Drives: 2016 1LT RS Camaro; 72 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Point, OR Posts: 5,688 View My Garage	Last I heard it was somewhere around $1850 for the XDI-35 and $2650 for the XDI-60... I'm looking at these XDI pictures realllll close, While there aren't many good shots, and I'm sure for good reason... The main body of those pumps look just like a square body lt1 fuel pump, just modifed, and their black part for the fuel inlet/outlet bolts on sooo... And they have the same electrical connector, same orientation, they are making a harness to go from whatever factory plug to the XDI unit... I'm thinking its just a modified stock pump. Although I'm sure a lot of work goes into it, I've never bought into the price tag, even at the "discounted, we'll send you the stuff, you do the R&D to make it work on your car" price. I think I'm on to something here... My LT1 fuel pump I puchased off ebay will be here Friday. I'll get to work, this is intriguing.

07-31-2018, 07:38 PM	#24
brlcla Drives: 1.4T Airboat, 2.0T Airboat (soon) Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Louisiana Posts: 29	I am no expert but that 66mm turbine wheel may hurt spool time some... 58mm or 63mm seems to be most of what I see being recommended and that PT6266 is rated at 750hp which is way more airflow than you'll need. just my $0.02

08-03-2018, 10:36 AM	#27
ryansalazan24 Drives: 2017 Cadillac ATS Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: TX Posts: 65	In the cobalt world, they hav been using the lt1 and lt4 hpfp for a little bit now as an upgrade and has shown really good feedback! I believe even zzp does this as well but with a better spring from what the description says and have it priced at a much more modest $700. I guess someone should ask when or if they will have one for the ltg platform. https://zzperformance.com/ecotec/fue...l-pump-upgrade

08-03-2018, 11:55 AM	#28
brlcla Drives: 1.4T Airboat, 2.0T Airboat (soon) Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Louisiana Posts: 29	ZZP is working on LTG HPFP... next year I was told! Their 7163 ZFR version I was told will be end of summer early fall release.

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