Need Help Full Engine Build - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

BradsL99 · 11-26-2012, 09:56 PM

Ok so I want to build an all N/A Camaro, it’s a 2012 l99 2SS/RS with 25k on the odometer. So I’ve been reading lots of post on here, and decided I’m just going to ship it off to a shop for the winter, i.e. lg motor sports, livernois motorsports, Jeanette racing etc. I’ve also made a parts list but I wonder if it’s just better to just let them build it and write a check. I’m going to convert to LS3 components and get rid of DOD and VVT my goal is to make at least 550hp and 500 ft. lbs. . . . im looking for all input to make this happen. So here’s my parts list...

JUICED MOTORSPORTS STAGE 3 LS3 HEADS 360 CFM INT 240 CFM EXH DUAL VALVE SPRINGS
G6X3 cam package
FAST 102mm intake manifold
FAST 102 mm throttle body with body spacer
ARP Head Bolts
MLS Head Gaskets
Hardened Pushrods
SLP Under drive pulley
Wideband 02 Bung
Cold Air inductions with JRE scoop and washer relocate kit
NGK TR6 Spark Plugs
GMPP LS7 Lifters
GMPP LS2 Lifter guide kit
GMPP LS2 Valley Cover
GMPP Valve Cover Breather Block-Off
GMPP LS7 Camshaft Sprocket
GMPP Timing Chain Dampener
GMPP PCV Hose for Non-DOD applications
GMPP LS2 Lifter guide kit
GMPP MLS Header Gaskets
ARP Camshaft Retainer plate bolts
ARP Timing Chain Bolts
LS2 Front Cover
4.11 gears/4.33 gears
2800 stall converter
Granatelli Motorsports 0hms Red Ignition Wires (Hi Temp)
Camaro SS Granatelli Motorsports Coil Set 80KV
LG Motorsports G5 Camaro Super Pro Headers 2'' in x 3''
Moroso Oil Separator (Catch Can)
Custom Dyno tune

This will be my daily driver, needs to be very reliable, so quality parts is a must. Also I don’t know what stall converter and gear combo to go with. Also I really don’t know who to ship it to; I’m really torn between lg motorsports, and livernois motorsports. Is this list overkill? Am I missing something? Best shop?

midnightz/28 · 11-26-2012, 10:10 PM

That's too low of gear in my opinion. Just my thoughts thought.

Apex Paul · 11-26-2012, 10:12 PM

Rather than a parts list, I might start by asking two things: What do you want from the motor, and what is your budget? then you can figure out if your parts list is going to 1.) Get you the power you want and 2.) fit into your budget.

I think you have answered #1, 550 hp.

Apex Paul · 11-26-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnightz/28

That's too low of gear in my opinion. Just my thoughts thought.

I would be right with you on that. If it was an M6 car I would have no problem with the lower gears.

Of course, maybe he has some other reason to go that low, you never know without asking what the intentions are for the car.

JohnnyBfromPeoria · 11-26-2012, 10:14 PM

Or, what is it he wants from his car?

EDIT: Paul beat me to it.

John B.

midnightz/28 · 11-26-2012, 10:15 PM

From experience with my combo, I have a a6 and a 3.45 is too low...

willhe64 · 11-26-2012, 10:16 PM

Having run all motor my whole life and just spending my first day in my supercharged Camaro I can definitely say that you are making a mistake. You know you sacrifice driveability for power in a naturally aspirated vehicle. You take away from the low end to build the top end.
My maggie equipped ls3 has better manners now than it did stock. Purrs like a kitten and then screams like a banshee when you walk on it. Crazy good. Better fuel mileage too.

v6sonoma · 11-26-2012, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willhe64

Having run all motor my whole life and just spending my first day in my supercharged Camaro I can definitely say that you are making a mistake. You know you sacrifice driveability for power in a naturally aspirated vehicle. You take away from the low end to build the top end.
My maggie equipped ls3 has better manners now than it did stock. Purrs like a kitten and then screams like a banshee when you walk on it. Crazy good. Better fuel mileage too.

Not 100% true. If hitting a certain dyno # is your main goal than you are right but you can have it both ways in a NA car if you plan it out right.

willhe64 · 11-26-2012, 11:31 PM

There is no way you can build an all motor ls block to have the kind of power a supercharger delivers throughout the rpm range and not suffer for streetability or manners. Not saying the thing will be a pain to drive, but there is a trade off.
I've just felt it and I'm a believer.

14pilot · 11-26-2012, 11:34 PM

If I where to do this, I'd go to and engine builder and discuss my goals with them.

No offense intended to anyone here, but I would not go to any Internet forum for advice.

Just a thought...

BradsL99 · 11-26-2012, 11:39 PM

My main goal is 100 % reliability, forced induction , in my opinion is to unpredictable. I just want a semi street able , daily driver. I don't know what are good gears for a6, but that's why I posted on here . I wanna do a lot of freeway pulls . Since majority of my driving is freeway. I know I can't have the best of both worlds with this wild of a cam but I want that sound everyone wants from a race car. And the dyno number is just ball park rang. But I want over 500 , lots of zo6 where I live and don't want to be scared when one pulls up next to me.

14pilot · 11-26-2012, 11:54 PM

Your build will require a lot of maintenance. Are you prepared for putting new valve springs in every 20K miles? Camming up to ~550rwhp will require that. You are going to need a lot beefer valve train than in your parts list to have dependability. Cooling systems upgrades? Forged bottom end?

If you were to consider going to a stroker or LSX 454 you get there with something that would hold together longer. Then you still need to beef up the entire drive train too.

Just some thoughts on what to discuss with someone that builds these types of engines for a living...

And what about when the guy with the fully built Z06 pulls up next to you ??? And he has a huge weight advantage over you too. You will be spanked.

There's always going to be a bigger dog out there no matter how much you spend.

VADER SS L99 · 11-27-2012, 12:37 AM

I agree with the above. 550RWHP is the minimum you will need to contend with a well driven STOCK Z06. How many stock ZO6 owners do you guys know because around here they all have AT LEAST bolt ons and alot are cammed. Unless you are just a die hard NA guy and want to spend alot of money on a big cubed NA setup you should really consider FI. For example a Whipple kit on 8-9 psi with ZL1 fuel pump and ID-850 injectors, LT headers, CAI and a great tune will make 525-550rwhp through a auto and cost less than a 427 all while being more streetable and super reliable. Not to mention it will have a better power curve. There is absolutly nothing wrong with a supercharger if the owner keeps the boost low, has enough fuel supply, and a great tune. Call Jannetty or Livernois and I am sure they will tell you the same. Also your gear choice should be 3.45 or 3.70's and you should take the GMS coils off your list.

alaskacamaro · 11-27-2012, 04:33 AM

Agreed above. I'm still learning a lot but SC seems safe (and cheaper) on a L99 or LS3 engine. Most SC companies will sell a new power train warranty for your car after installation, which tells me they have a lot of confidence that a SC installed correctly will give you the power you need (575-600) and still keep your reliability. Most only upgrade their engines when they are trying to get past 700hp safely, at least as far as I can tell.

11-26-2012, 10:14 PM	#5
JohnnyBfromPeoria Drives: 2012 LS M6, Black Join Date: May 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,045	Or, what is it he wants from his car? EDIT: Paul beat me to it. John B. __________________ 12 LS M6, IPF S/C, ASA GT-5 wheels, VMax PTB 1995 Mitsubishi Montero SR 1987 Dodge Raider Turbo Project 1986 Mitsubishi Montero 2.4l FI Transplant

11-26-2012, 10:16 PM	#7
willhe64 Drives: 2012 45th Vert, 2011 4x4, 9sec Vega Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 2,188	Having run all motor my whole life and just spending my first day in my supercharged Camaro I can definitely say that you are making a mistake. You know you sacrifice driveability for power in a naturally aspirated vehicle. You take away from the low end to build the top end. My maggie equipped ls3 has better manners now than it did stock. Purrs like a kitten and then screams like a banshee when you walk on it. Crazy good. Better fuel mileage too. __________________ I feel it only fair to warn you, I have a black belt in CAPS LOCK.

11-26-2012, 11:31 PM	#9
willhe64 Drives: 2012 45th Vert, 2011 4x4, 9sec Vega Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 2,188	There is no way you can build an all motor ls block to have the kind of power a supercharger delivers throughout the rpm range and not suffer for streetability or manners. Not saying the thing will be a pain to drive, but there is a trade off. I've just felt it and I'm a believer. __________________ I feel it only fair to warn you, I have a black belt in CAPS LOCK.

11-27-2012, 12:37 AM	#13
VADER SS L99 Drives: 2013 A6 GT 5.0 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 2,909	I agree with the above. 550RWHP is the minimum you will need to contend with a well driven STOCK Z06. How many stock ZO6 owners do you guys know because around here they all have AT LEAST bolt ons and alot are cammed. Unless you are just a die hard NA guy and want to spend alot of money on a big cubed NA setup you should really consider FI. For example a Whipple kit on 8-9 psi with ZL1 fuel pump and ID-850 injectors, LT headers, CAI and a great tune will make 525-550rwhp through a auto and cost less than a 427 all while being more streetable and super reliable. Not to mention it will have a better power curve. There is absolutly nothing wrong with a supercharger if the owner keeps the boost low, has enough fuel supply, and a great tune. Call Jannetty or Livernois and I am sure they will tell you the same. Also your gear choice should be 3.45 or 3.70's and you should take the GMS coils off your list. __________________ BLK/BLK 1SS/RS Ordered 11-01-2009 Took delivery 12-22-2009. Heads/cam/converter/bolt ons. SOLD Feb 2015 to fund 6th gen LT1 SS with 8L90E.

11-26-2012, 09:56 PM	#1
BradsL99 Drives: 2012 Camaro 2ss/rs L99 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Boise,ID Posts: 8	Need Help Full Engine Build Ok so I want to build an all N/A Camaro, it’s a 2012 l99 2SS/RS with 25k on the odometer. So I’ve been reading lots of post on here, and decided I’m just going to ship it off to a shop for the winter, i.e. lg motor sports, livernois motorsports, Jeanette racing etc. I’ve also made a parts list but I wonder if it’s just better to just let them build it and write a check. I’m going to convert to LS3 components and get rid of DOD and VVT my goal is to make at least 550hp and 500 ft. lbs. . . . im looking for all input to make this happen. So here’s my parts list... JUICED MOTORSPORTS STAGE 3 LS3 HEADS 360 CFM INT 240 CFM EXH DUAL VALVE SPRINGS G6X3 cam package FAST 102mm intake manifold FAST 102 mm throttle body with body spacer ARP Head Bolts MLS Head Gaskets Hardened Pushrods SLP Under drive pulley Wideband 02 Bung Cold Air inductions with JRE scoop and washer relocate kit NGK TR6 Spark Plugs GMPP LS7 Lifters GMPP LS2 Lifter guide kit GMPP LS2 Valley Cover GMPP Valve Cover Breather Block-Off GMPP LS7 Camshaft Sprocket GMPP Timing Chain Dampener GMPP PCV Hose for Non-DOD applications GMPP LS2 Lifter guide kit GMPP MLS Header Gaskets ARP Camshaft Retainer plate bolts ARP Timing Chain Bolts LS2 Front Cover 4.11 gears/4.33 gears 2800 stall converter Granatelli Motorsports 0hms Red Ignition Wires (Hi Temp) Camaro SS Granatelli Motorsports Coil Set 80KV LG Motorsports G5 Camaro Super Pro Headers 2'' in x 3'' Moroso Oil Separator (Catch Can) Custom Dyno tune This will be my daily driver, needs to be very reliable, so quality parts is a must. Also I don’t know what stall converter and gear combo to go with. Also I really don’t know who to ship it to; I’m really torn between lg motorsports, and livernois motorsports. Is this list overkill? Am I missing something? Best shop?

11-26-2012, 10:10 PM	#2
midnightz/28 Account Suspended Drives: 2010 2SS/RS, 1981 Z/28, Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: street near you! Posts: 137 View My Garage	That's too low of gear in my opinion. Just my thoughts thought.

11-26-2012, 10:12 PM	#3
Apex Paul Drives: Wagon Queen Family Truckster Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Louisville, Ky Posts: 1,476	Rather than a parts list, I might start by asking two things: What do you want from the motor, and what is your budget? then you can figure out if your parts list is going to 1.) Get you the power you want and 2.) fit into your budget. I think you have answered #1, 550 hp.

11-26-2012, 10:15 PM	#6
midnightz/28 Account Suspended Drives: 2010 2SS/RS, 1981 Z/28, Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: street near you! Posts: 137 View My Garage	From experience with my combo, I have a a6 and a 3.45 is too low...

11-26-2012, 11:39 PM	#11
BradsL99 Drives: 2012 Camaro 2ss/rs L99 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Boise,ID Posts: 8	My main goal is 100 % reliability, forced induction , in my opinion is to unpredictable. I just want a semi street able , daily driver. I don't know what are good gears for a6, but that's why I posted on here . I wanna do a lot of freeway pulls . Since majority of my driving is freeway. I know I can't have the best of both worlds with this wild of a cam but I want that sound everyone wants from a race car. And the dyno number is just ball park rang. But I want over 500 , lots of zo6 where I live and don't want to be scared when one pulls up next to me.

11-27-2012, 04:33 AM	#14
alaskacamaro Drives: 2012 2SS 45TH Anniversary Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 720	Agreed above. I'm still learning a lot but SC seems safe (and cheaper) on a L99 or LS3 engine. Most SC companies will sell a new power train warranty for your car after installation, which tells me they have a lot of confidence that a SC installed correctly will give you the power you need (575-600) and still keep your reliability. Most only upgrade their engines when they are trying to get past 700hp safely, at least as far as I can tell.