Hands Free/Self Driving Cars

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I'm hoping they don't let the computer take over from the human on its own in initiative as opposed to active driver decision to delegate that control.

The difference being control as something that the driver can choose to give up as opposed to something that the computer unilaterally takes over.


Norm

[racesloth]

Originally Posted by CrazyRED

Forced how? They are going to recall all manual driving vehicles? I completely agree with the government's ineptness, but I don't think this is the discussion for it.

This sounds just like all the conversations about the electric car and how the government was going to take away all our fire breathing vehicles.

If the government ever takes away our option to drive our cars it won't be in our lifetimes

Forced how? "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." Back then my parents monthly premium was $420 a month - they liked their doctor. Now #1100 a month for much crappier care... They were forced. If you don't think it can be done with cars - just stand by.

[racesloth]

Originally Posted by CrazyRED

Just as I replied to another comment, there's no way the government is going to round up all 263.6 million cars in the United States and make us all use automated vehicles.

At least not in our lifetime

They don't have to round them up. Through legislation you just make it cost prohibitive not to move over to the self driving cars. During cash for clunkers they even destroyed the engines so you couldn't get one from the junkyard. A lot of good LS blocks just gone from ground glass in the oil. Don't think politicians won't go to extrodinary lengths to control your behavior.

When I lived in Japan in the 80's, American military there bought cars from the junk yard. I bought a 5 year old turbo Skyline for $450. It still smelled new and had 20K km on it. It was because the laws were written to make it more expensive to own a 6yr old car than to buy new.

[racesloth]

Yeah, over 40 here lived all over the planet and watched how goverments work. To say it won't happen because of the numbers is IMHO, shortsighted. The numbers will make it harder and will take a considerable amount of time. But a politician never tires of writing new laws aimed at controlling your life for "the greater good."

Currently in the UK most cars on the road are diesel powered. There was legilative incentive to buy these cars over decades in the UK to save the planet. Now studies show the the particulates are a large contributing factor to lung related health problems. The UK gov't is now in the process of legislatively phasing out diesels to move back to petrol. Diesel owners are mad as they see the resale value of thier cars plumet. Before the good was the environment. Now the good is reducing asthmatic problems. No appologies for getting it wrong for decades, just more legislation.


I realy don't care about autonomous cars, as a freemarket guy, I believe the market should integrate them as it becomes cost effective in the market. Electric vehicles the same way - they don't need to be subsidized by the taxpayer because it is good for the planet - Chevy still couldn't sell them (not a zero emission vehicle either since the electricity comes from somewhere). The free market is great, man just can't resist messing with it.

/rant off

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Your post is not showing either a picture or a link on my computer and it wasn't until previewing my reply that I could see what you were getting at. It's still just a blank space even when quoted.

I'm not looking at autonomous driving with any assumption of evil intent playing in the background (even HAL didn't think saving himself was evil, just necessary).


Anyway, considering that there already are cars on the road whose stability control systems can turn themselves back on under certain conditions (such as ABS intervention or during autocross), what's to stop some mfr from carrying that same mindset over to level 4 operation? How "off" is "autonomy off" really going to be? How sensitive/conservative would any thresholds for re-activation be set?


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

What I think we’re seeing far too much of are the people who are opining that it will be “all one way”. Just like there are too many people writing about the “fact” that the growth of electric vehicles will bring about the death of the internal combustion engine. I can mathematically dispel that anal-cranial point of view in about 5 minutes.

Perhaps the concern is not that it might happen abruptly, but that it might gradually progress to the same point over a much longer period of time. With mfrs abandoning choice where one or more of the alternatives has a very low take rate, this concern is real (if distant).

That I probably won't see that point reached in my lifetime and not care what happens as a consequence isn't the right attitude for me to take - it would basically amount to being selfish, that I'd only be caring about how it would affect me individually, devil take the rest of you.


Norm

[Stormcloak]

Hovering close to 50 here, I'm not particularly worried about being forced to adapt any time soon. Statistically, electric vehicles make up about 1% of all new vehicle sales in the US, even with the financial perk of owning one.

I wonder if we even have the natural resources needed to have that many EV's on the road in the first place as far as battery power goes.

Convincing the US driver to give up his capacity to navigate on his own will be a far harder sell than switching to electric was. I'm pretty confident that the next car I buy will be similar to what I have now. And if not, I'll just hang onto this and put an LS7 in it.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Your post is not showing either a picture or a link on my computer and it wasn't until previewing my reply that I could see what you were getting at. It's still just a blank space even when quoted.

I'm not looking at autonomous driving with any assumption of evil intent playing in the background (even HAL didn't think saving himself was evil, just necessary).


Anyway, considering that there already are cars on the road whose stability control systems can turn themselves back on under certain conditions (such as ABS intervention or during autocross), what's to stop some mfr from carrying that same mindset over to level 4 operation? How "off" is "autonomy off" really going to be? How sensitive/conservative would any thresholds for re-activation be set?


Norm

IDK, I can't see embedded videos on this site when using explorer, though I can when using chrome. Only this site though...weird, maybe Camaro5 is forcing me to use chrome?

Any just a bringing a little humor to the thought.

But that is an interesting topic. At what point does the car think you're in trouble and take over?
Should "autonomous driving" be the default mode on the car, or should it be a selection the operator has to make?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Perhaps the concern is not that it might happen abruptly, but that it might gradually progress to the same point over a much longer period of time. With mfrs abandoning choice where one or more of the alternatives has a very low take rate, this concern is real (if distant).

That I probably won't see that point reached in my lifetime and not care what happens as a consequence isn't the right attitude for me to take - it would basically amount to being selfish, that I'd only be caring about how it would affect me individually, devil take the rest of you.


Norm

I understand. The fact that it can’t happen abruptly gives me confidence in the idea that as it gradually evolves, it will also gradually improve, and be subject to the natural forces of supply and demand. This is the path that electric vehicles are taking. As Stormcloak pointed out, electric vehicles are somewhere around 1%, even with incentives. Part of that is because buyers get to choose from butt ugly compacts with short range like Nissan Leaf (my apologies to those that own one that I may have offended) or mega-expensive Tesla Model S and Model X. As more attractive AND affordable vehicles with longer range (Chevy Bolt, Tesla Model 3, a bunch of upcoming VW models) come to market, that 1% is likely to slide up to about 15 - 20%. Those who want one will be able to buy one and they will continue to get better. Those who don’t want one won’t have to buy one. Unless they live in Scandanavia, which is a completely different story.

Same will likely hold true for autonomous. As they become more affordable and with broader options available, those who want will get, those who don’t won’t have to.

[Jayjellyfish212]

[Jayjellyfish212]

[woyster_13ss]

I want NOTHING to do with self-driving cars. The day I can't drive my own car is the day they put me in the ground!

[2SS/RSD]

No thanks!

[MrTwenty6]

Sign me the hell up. Audi has supposed L3 tech in the 2019/2020 A8 for use in traffic. The car will take over driving duty WITHOUT requiring driver attention during traffic conditions (up to 37mph).

Average age of vehicles on the road is 11+ years and will continue to grow older since cars can reliably hit over 150k miles these days. I doubt it'll be a big deal for my generation - it'll be the kids today that grow into these self driving cars that will be "forced" into them.