*Pics* Why you should do a Solid Isolator Coupler...

[bumblebeecamaro]

I can't believe all the BS Matt is receiving in this thread considering he's doing what I would call giving some good information on a very well known issue with these LSA engines. I for one appreciate Matt's information.

freaking internet trolls. all forums have them.........

[Smittty]

I want to say thanks to Matt and Silverds for the Info they both provided. It has been beneficial to my decision making.

[BAD ZL1]

See, maybe living in California aint so bad... We can’t do anything to our cars, and people get upset about that? No pulley upgrades allowed here, hence no isolator drama until after 5 years or 100K miles, maybe some marbles rolling around in a can sound but heck.. ha...(JK)

[Silverguardrail]

Originally Posted by ZL1 TIBS

As an engineer, this is the response I expected. Personally, I am not going to worry about it unless the rattle gets pronounced. I am wondering if it would have been beneficial to install a rubber or polyurethane sleeve between the shaft and spring to avoid contact between them.

I'm no engineer but, after working on Chevy's for 40 years and having looked at all the worn shaft pictures, the first thing I see is rust.
My immediate conclusion is, why isn't there ANY high temperature / speed grease applied only to that contact area ?
To me, what has occurred is the result of metal filings from spring / shaft friction, which in turn produces rust, which wears away at the polished shaft just like sand paper. Hence, shaft damage, noise and a rattle.

I put this forward as point of discussion and thought, not to ignite emotions.

[silverds]

Rust is also known as ferric oxide or iron oxide. Ferric oxide (Iron oxide) has very little abrasive effect. When pulverized, washed and decanted, it is turned into crocus or red rouge for cutting and Polishing metal commonly refereed to as "jeweler's rouge", "red rouge", or simply rouge. It is used to put the final polish on metallic jewellry and lenses, and historically as a cosmetic.

But the process that makes this "rustlike" powder is called fretting. It is not the same as what causes rust as it requires no moisture. Fretting damage in steel can be identified by the presence of a pitted surface and fine 'red' iron oxide dust reminiscent of cocoa powder. Strictly this debris is not "rust" as its production requires no water. The particles are much harder than the steel surfaces in contact, so abrasive wear is inevitable; however, particulates are not required to initiate fret.

The contact movement between the spring and the shaft causes mechanical wear and material transfer at the surface, often followed by oxidation of both the metallic debris and the freshly exposed metallic surfaces. Because the oxidized debris is usually much harder than the surfaces from which it came, it often acts as an abrasive agent that increases the rate of both fretting and a mechanical wear called false brinelling.

So we already know that EATON states, and warranties, the galling or "false brinelling" of the shaft is intended and limited. It is limited because the amount of compression of the spring in the Isolator is limited. If the spring can only compress to a limited extent, than the damage it can cause by fretting against the shaft is also limited. Eventually the spring will compress completely with little to no abbrasion against the shaft and fit inside the brinelled groves like your fingers fit into a molded pistol grip.

This is precicely the reason why pictures of a galled (false-brinelled) shaft and a dirty finger mean nothing more than somebody removed the supercharger snout and took pictures of a broken-in coupling. It is not the reason to do anything other than ooh and ahh like you just put on x-ray glasses for the first time.

[djnice]

Would grease make it quiter?

[silverds]

Here is a comparison of pictures posted of worn coupler shafts.
I don't know why so many tuners are selling soild couplers. None, that I know of have, provided any real explanation why a solid couple is better than a spring loaded one. All that I can find that they offer are these pictures as justification which, if you read my post above, isn't really justification at all, it's just marketing.

Take a look at these pictures. The mileage posted by the OP's of each pic are 600miles, 1,001miles, 9,400miles, 25,000miles and 42,000miles. It seems to me from all these pictures that the coupling would appear to be almost completely broken in by 1,000 miles.

Posted At Camaro5 Forum

This LSA superchargers has 600 Miles





Posted at Camaro5 Forum

This LSA superchargers has 600 Miles






Posted At Lingenfelter Forum

This LSA supercharger has 1,001 Miles




Posted at Camaro5 Forum

This LSA superchargers has 9,400 Miles



Posted At Caddy Forum

This LSA supercharger has 25,000 Miles



Posted At Caddy Forum

This LSA supercharger has 42,000 Miles

[silverds]

Originally Posted by djnice

Would grease make it quiter?

Any fluid grease or lubricant would just be flung outwards, away from the fretting surfaces by centrifugal force.

[silverds]

.....and for the RECORD. Calling BULLSHIT! on "BULLSHIT", is not "TROLLING". It's just calling...

[djnice]

Its hard to say without having them in your hands and measuring, but it looks like the wear slots continue to get deeper.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by silverds

Here is a comparison of pictures posted of worn coupler shafts.
I don't know why so many tuners are selling soild couplers. None, that I know of have, provided any real explanation why a solid couple is better than a spring loaded one. All that I can find that they offer are these pictures as justification which, if you read my post above, isn't really justification at all, it's just marketing.

Take a look at these pictures. The mileage posted by the OP's of each pic are 600miles, 1,001miles, 9,400miles, 25,000miles and 42,000miles. It seems to me from all these pictures that the coupling would appear to be almost completely broken in by 1,000 miles.

Posted At Camaro5 Forum

This LSA superchargers has 600 Miles





Posted at Camaro5 Forum

This LSA superchargers has 600 Miles






Posted At Lingenfelter Forum

This LSA supercharger has 1,001 Miles




Posted at Camaro5 Forum

This LSA superchargers has 9,400 Miles



Posted At Caddy Forum

This LSA supercharger has 25,000 Miles



Posted At Caddy Forum

This LSA supercharger has 42,000 Miles

Do you have anything more than "it seems" from looking at photos? Any studies, data, statistics? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Sent from my note 10.1

[Modern07]

Originally Posted by silverds

I don't know why so many tuners are selling soild couplers. None, that I know of have, provided any real explanation why a solid couple is better than a spring loaded one

People change them when changing the pulleys to get rid of the rattle noise.

The rattle noise is caused by the spring in the spring loaded isolator, and is obviously an annoying problem to many many owners of cars with the LSA engine otherwise the issue would not have been raised hundreds of times, people would not have had superchargers replaced under warranty so many times etc etc etc.

When changing pulleys you also lose the warranty so changing the supercharger for free to get rid of the issue is no longer an option - but changing to a solid isolator without the spring gets rid of the noise and costs nothing more than $60.

It would make NO sense not to change it given this fact.

This is why all the performance shops change it when changing pulleys.

Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

[silverds]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

Do you have anything more than "it seems" from looking at photos? Any studies, data, statistics? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Sent from my note 10.1

It depends, data that answers what question? Whether "it seems" to me or not?

No, I have no data, but I can assure you that as a consumer, looking for true data of why something that is being marketed to me as an upgrade or an improvement to something I already have, the burden is not on me, to provide proof, it's on the marketer.

It "seems to me" they have nothing better than "look at these pictures" and "everyone else is selling them".

Heck many, if not all soft drink distributors sell bottled water. They say it's fresher, more pure, distilled, filtered....whatever. They may even show pictures of floaties pouring from your tap into a glass. But none can prove it's better than tap water.

The truth is I don't have any data to prove, that The Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy don't exist either. But until you asked your question, I didn't think proof was needed.

[Modern07]

Originally Posted by silverds

It depends, data that answers what question? Whether "it seems" to me or not?

No, I have no data, but I can assure you that as a consumer, looking for true data of why something that is being marketed to me as an upgrade or an improvement to something I already have, the burden is not on me, to provide proof, it's on the marketer.

It "seems to me" they have nothing better than "look at these pictures" and "everyone else is selling them".

Heck many, if not all soft drink distributors sell bottled water. They say it's fresher, more pure, distilled, filtered....whatever. They may even show pictures of floaties pouring from your tap into a glass. But none can prove it's better than tap water.

The truth is I don't have any data to prove, that The Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy don't exist either. But until you asked your question, I didn't think proof was needed.

Now I know I said earlier in the thread that you shouldn't assume, but in this case I'm going to assume that you have ears.

Now, I would suggest that you find a car with the rattle noise, then find a car with a solid isolator - and using your ears you should be able to find the proof you need as to why people change this item for $60.