Dual-mode exhaust must rarely be ordered

[christianchevell]

wow look at all the trolls,: lions and tigers and trolls oh my........ LOL this subject really brings em out..............Must be because they hate being past by a loud camaro that stealthily snuck up on em and blew their doors off and when it opened up everyone noticed as they sat at the light noisy exhaust burbling? Or is it they need better exhaust systems for their mustangs and such? Ones that dont sound fartty like ricers..... Personally I believe unless you have owned a standard exhaust camaro and dual mode exhaust camaro your opinion does not count for squat.........And you do not see us owners of dual mode exhaust cars bashing it do you? Then maybe you should have a nice big cup of STFU The exhaust is on the vettes and the zl1 what does it have to be on the starship enterprize before you figure out its worth it? Oh thats right maybe you can lay on your back and weld something together for cheaper.....Wonderful, weld something that works the same as this exhaust and sell it to camaro fans then and sell it for cheaper. You see some of us are also old school rodders who call it as we see it. You dont have it, you dont want it, bye bye.......

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

And you do not see us owners of dual mode exhaust cars bashing it do you?

No. But at this point in this thread, I doubt that anybody with the NPP would jump in if they actively didn't like it.

What I do see is a lack of patience among a few that really like it for those who don't feel that it's worth it for themselves, or who don't see (hear?) things exactly the same way.

We're going to have to agree to disagree as to whether NPP is worth it strictly on an individual basis. There are equally valid reasons on both sides of the fence, and you won't hear me bash it beyond mention that it isn't for me.


Norm

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by Bumble.Bee

Lol are you kidding me? One of the number one topics in this forum is what exhaust system for your camaro to make it louder and sound better. You just made a fool of yourself.

Am i a fool because I do not feel a need to draw attention to my car? Because I have enough confidence to not need comments from others about how my car sounds? Because I would rather spend my money on track time so I can become a better racer instead of the king on the drive through? Or am I a fool because I learned long ago that if you want to make real power you spend your money on cams, compression, and head work? I think maybe you might want to look in the mirror to see who looks like a fool.

[fz4k98]

If your truly concerned about best performance for the money you would put your money on a bike. 15k will get you a consistent 9 second machine that gets 35 mpg. Or is it maybe MY performance.

The number one response for my 2013 ss NPP when fired up is "That is really stock?". Friend at work is building his 70 Camaro and wants my exhaust on it after taking mine for a ride. Cruise all day without drone and lite when you want.

[WHAMMO]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Wrong all the way for you, perhaps. Try to accept the fact that we don't think alike, nor are we likely to necessarily want quite the same sound character. So the best deal for you probably would not be the "best deal" for me even if I hadn't thought about it before.



What I'm consistently hearing in all that ↑↑↑ is that you understand "checkbook modding" very well and that you'll pay somebody else to install mods rather than do the work yourself (correct me if I'm wrong). Sorry if that's not my style and that mine as a DIY'er doesn't agree with your sensibilities.

I'm not trying to change your mind or anybody else's. What I am after is a little better understanding of opinions that run the other way on this matter. Trust me, I do understand why people might like it. It just doesn't have $900 worth of "I like it" in it for me.

Just so you know, I probably have a little more understanding of exhaust systems than you suspect (40+ years engineering background and 45+ years working on my own cars helps). If you're sufficiently interested, I can post up a neat little plot that will graphically show you why V8's with crossplane cranks sound the way they do (including an effect you may have not even noticed before, and why V8's sound way different when you run them through an X-pipe). It's something I worked up as part of a header-back exhaust system effort for a 355 SBC that I spec'ed and fabbed up entirely by myself. All-welded from the 3-bolt header connectors back, including some special treatments for thermal expansion.

As gajagfan suggested, I work my exhaust systems up from a performance first point of view. Then it has to fit, and function without overstressing itself or repeatedly causing gasket failures. Finally it gets around to the sound, which is low man on the totem pole if you will. But I've been happy enough with the resulting sounds so far that I've never had to rework anything. Sure, the jury is still out on the Maxima because it's barely been a week, but my Plan-B for that is only going to cost me a used muffler that cost me maybe $50 about 15 years ago and some time under the car. If/when it dies a few years out, I'll still have the other one. DIY mentality.

What I'll pay $800 for is immaterial here (but I've spent considerably more - each and collectively for sets - on certain other car parts). I just won't ever spend that much for exhaust work. Even with all non-OE parts, that's really just basic repair-level work that I can spec, source, fab, and install myself, and that I'll enjoy the result of all the more because I did it.


Norm

If you never bought a a catback and never did back to back dyno test with different systems your exp on the subject is nothing to be considered. Check book modding? No, but at some point you cant fabricate everything. I installed my last catback and ORY, nitrous, clutch, brake suspension etc.

Are you telling me x pipe and ORY doesnt sound the same? ...I dont think you could teach me that much if you are thinking its breaking news.

Anyway, this thread is useless and I dont even know why we are questionning the purpose of a good catback.

Id rather believe GM engineers than a stock catback Ford Mustang owner On the subject.

[Nate1LE]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

Am i a fool because I do not feel a need to draw attention to my car? Because I have enough confidence to not need comments from others about how my car sounds? Because I would rather spend my money on track time so I can become a better racer instead of the king on the drive through? Or am I a fool because I learned long ago that if you want to make real power you spend your money on cams, compression, and head work? I think maybe you might want to look in the mirror to see who looks like a fool.

Well-said brother!

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by Jim968

Wouldn't spend a dime on something that doesn't give performance? How many extra HP are you getting from your BA system?

FWIW I love the NPP system on my car and i would order it again in a second.

I guess a moment of weakness! I got that and one other option.....1LE. Prob should have got RS instead! Just kidding. I do hope the stereo sounds good. Makes long drives more fun!

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

No. But at this point in this thread, I doubt that anybody with the NPP would jump in if they actively didn't like it.

What I do see is a lack of patience among a few that really like it for those who don't feel that it's worth it for themselves, or who don't see (hear?) things exactly the same way.

We're going to have to agree to disagree as to whether NPP is worth it strictly on an individual basis. There are equally valid reasons on both sides of the fence, and you won't hear me bash it beyond mention that it isn't for me.


Norm

I completely concur ... What's the old adage, "That's why they make Ford and Chevy" ...


For what it's worth, there are guys with ZL1's that are dumping their exhaust for aftermarket.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by WHAMMO

If you never bought a a catback and never did back to back dyno test with different systems your exp on the subject is nothing to be considered. Check book modding? No, but at some point you cant fabricate everything. I installed my last catback and ORY, nitrous, clutch, brake suspension etc.

Buying a commercially available catback system is indeed "checkbook modding", because all of the design work and 99% of the fit-up work has been done for you. While that's absolutely the right answer for many people, it isn't my "right answer". There's not enough performance difference among them, or between any of them and what I might fab up, to matter to me. Minor differences in sound under most conditions I could hardly care less about. Bad drone I'll get my hands dirty and fix myself for pocket change instead of writing another big check and hoping for the best (again). I know you know of people who have gone through several different exhausts.

At least you accept the notion that different people are more willing to get deeper into their own installation and fabrication efforts than others. Good, because I know - in person - a guy who fabbed up his own mufflers. I think his car even got brief mention in Camaro Performers magazine.

I dont even know why we are questionning the purpose of a good catback.

Nobody is questioning its purpose. All of the questioning going on is about whether it's worth the money. For many it is. Once again, for a few of us, it isn't. It really is that simple.

Id rather believe GM engineers than a stock catback Ford Mustang owner On the subject.

When in doubt, take a shot, I guess. Then again somebody at Chevrolet anticipated that the NPP would not appeal to everybody at the chosen price point and made it an OPTION.

It's crossed my mind that NPP has a mechanism, which has some potential to get stuck in one position. I wonder how loud the complaints will be when that starts happening. Now I'm sure that GM's exhaust system engineers have tried very hard to delay the onset of this, but the exhaust stream is a particularly harsh environment (hot, wet, acidic, maybe a little sooty).

The catback on the Mustang is stock because it's not worth the money to me to change it out just for the sound (should sound familiar) and a handful of HP, and it hasn't yet deteriorated to the point where I have to do something with it. When I do, it won't be OE and it won't be a kit. Hell, I might just fab up an X-pipe to intentionally make it sound different from all the other Mustangs with non-OE exhaust.


Norm

[dwinva]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

No. But at this point in this thread, I doubt that anybody with the NPP would jump in if they actively didn't like it.

What I do see is a lack of patience among a few that really like it for those who don't feel that it's worth it for themselves, or who don't see (hear?) things exactly the same way.

We're going to have to agree to disagree as to whether NPP is worth it strictly on an individual basis. There are equally valid reasons on both sides of the fence, and you won't hear me bash it beyond mention that it isn't for me.


Norm

Hey Norm,

This is a sane, rational thougth...there is no place for that here.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Solo hi-flow cats on an otherwise stock exhaust sounds better than the NPP. And it frees up more HP. For half the price.

Just sayin'.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Solo hi-flow cats on an otherwise stock exhaust sounds better than the NPP. And it frees up more HP. For half the price.

Just sayin'.

We all know where the main restriction is on the OEM exhaust. Now if you add the Solo H/F cats to the NPP exhaust, the sound is incredible.


Take a listen to my ZL1 ...

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

Take a listen to my ZL1 ...

Sounds like crap.





Not really...


No doubt having both is awesome but people are all over Norm for daring to question the almighty NPP. My only point to those with raging NPP hard-ons is that you can do better for less so Norm isn't the idiot they think he is.

[Baldwin feeder]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

A 91 caprice? Was that your daily driver? How many miles were on it when you got rid of it?

The Caprice was my daily for a decade. Had only 210,000 miles on it. Partially so low due to my truck and I had a 94 Camaro for 5 years.