Sold the camaro to a dealer and now they want their money back.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I have no sympathy for anyone that trys to deceive someone else. I love how people in this thread are saying screw the dealer because all dealers suck and are liars. Wonder how Becky feels about that. I know it pisses me off because I know two dealers in my area that are two of the most honest and upstanding people that I've ever met. They go above and beyond to provide a great experience to their customers. The dealer wasn't the crook here. The OP was as far as I'm concerned. Do they have a case? Probably not, but that doesn't mean they deserve to get screwed just because they are a dealer.

Where did the OP deceive the dealer? They inspected the car twice. They asked the OP to sign a paper about Mods or something and he declined to do that. They still bought the car from him. The car wasn't in any accidents, wasn't salvage. Not sure I see that the OP did anything wrong.

Sounds like the dealer purchased the car. Their auction house decided they wouldn't sell it because at one point the car had a roll cage. So now the dealer doesn't want the car anymore. Please tell me how that is the OP's problem when the dealer inspected the car twice, the OP declined to sign the contract in regards to Mods, and they STILL bought the car.

I have not read anywhere where the owner of a car is legally obligated to disclose that a roll cage was installed. I believe you must only disclose if the car is Salvaged, Damaged in a Flood, or Rebuilt.

Sorry but I don't see any deceit or shadiness on the OPs part. I am shocked that the dealer would buy a used sports car from a seller if he declined to sign their paperwork. Sounds to me like the dealer perhaps made a poor decision and now they want to scare the OP into buying back the car because the dealer has sour grapes.

[Kens ss]

This entire thread is very interesting. A couple firsts for me...

I have never heard of a dealer wanting thier money back.

I also do not recall ever being asked to sign any documents regarding modifications on any trade I ever did (maybe it is a California thing?)

I would assume they paid the op a low wholesale price, as that is what dealers do. So for them to want to void the deal a week later, seems to indicate that the de-modifications to the car are of very serious concern, and they can't even unload the car at a break even wholesale price.

I would assume they just ran a carfax and did a test drive and missed the signs of the roll bar being removed until later. I can't say that I ever looked for removed roll bar evidence on any car I bought.

Please give us an update on whether this issue is dropped or escalated by the dealer?

[snarky]

eh buyer beware. the dealer better look in house at its appraiser. they deal in bulk and while every transaction affects the bottom line not all will be wins.

[motorhead]

You guys are missing my point all together. I don't really care what the laws are or what the op is legally obligated to disclose. It's about having some morals. He's not screwing over the dealer he's screwing over a consumer that will end up with that pile. Im in business too and work hard to treat people right. I can sleep well at night knowing that I treat people the way I would expect to be treated. I just can't stand reading or hearing about this kind of crap. If the OP didn't want these kind of comments or this kind of publicity he should have started thread. We didn't know the entire story and never will. I know it really isn't any of our business, but he made it our business by posting. All I know is that the same people that are sticking up for him would be singing a very different tune of the OP had bought this car at a dealership and found these issues. We have threads like that now. I didn't read anything from you people saying "oh, buyer beware. You shouod have done your homework" No, you would be "Lawyer up, Start a petition, don't buy from dealer X.



I've more than said my feelings on this, and Im done. Sorry to keep going on about it. I just can't stand deceiful people no matter who they are.

[Scottiemac]

Does anyone remember the thread with the guy from Hawaii. He had a badly rusted frame part and found it a week or so after purchase and everyone chimed in against the dealer. The problem is who will eventually get the car and even if it's not a safety issue they will probably get a tainted car even if this car can be repaired. Full disclosure counts both ways. The dealer will either sell to someone or get him to buy it back. The car is tainted with this history now and any prospective buyer should know prior to purchasing.

[Freddy G]

Originally Posted by CHMSC

Long story short or I will try.

Car was new and sold as new. I was the first owner on record. Car had 50 or so miles on it.

I went to Paradise Chevrolet in Temecula, CA to see the car just before it got dark. I had bought cars and trucks from them before without an issue. I saw the car and it looked great at dusk. Test drove it and bought it.

The next morning as I went to work I admired my new ride and that's when I noticed inconsistencies in the paint. After work I gave the car a thorough look over and found a bad paint match job, fish eyes and lots of orange peel.

I tried talking to the dealership but was blown off and basically told I didn't know what I was talking about. Little did they know my dad owned a body shop for years and I was well aware of how body work was done and how to spot stuff. I use to help my dad.

So I hired a professional that my attorney recommended and he wrote a book on the car assessing all the damage. He found bondo on the drivers fender, door and rear quarter panel. Rear bumper was also replaced. Suspected the rear quarter may have been replaced but couldn't confirm it without taking the car apart. And the car was almost fully repainted. He estimated the damage to be around $10,000.

After I confronted the dealership with the book they asked to look over the car themselves. I agreed.

I went in for a meeting with the GM and he said "the car had sand damage from transport". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out he was full of shit.

They didn't want to buy the car back. But I threatened to sue them and they decided it was best to buy it back and fully compensate me.

I would have sued them but on my attorneys advice I didn't since the car only had cosmetic damage and nothing that would have effected the safety of the car.

The last thing I ever thought about was a new car being in a bad wreck and being sold as new. The dealer fixed the car in house and never reported it hence why car fax didn't show anything.

Damn, that sucks man. At least the dealer bought it back without too much hassle. Now, lessons learned. I better check the entire car next time I buy, even its new. Thanks for sharing!

[Freddy G]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I have no sympathy for anyone that trys to deceive someone else. I love how people in this thread are saying screw the dealer because all dealers suck and are liars. Wonder how Becky feels about that. I know it pisses me off because I know two dealers in my area that are two of the most honest and upstanding people that I've ever met. They go above and beyond to provide a great experience to their customers. The dealer wasn't the crook here. The OP was as far as I'm concerned. Do they have a case? Probably not, but that doesn't mean they deserve to get screwed just because they are a dealer.

There is a thread on here of a guy trying to sell a 1lE. He list all the modds and everything that has been done to the car. That's how it should be. Then people can decide if they want that type of vehilce or not.

I feel ya, good dealers does exist, but very rare. Out of all the dealers I've been dealing with, I only found one that I would trust. That's why I travel very far to them. But the majority of dealers doesn't give a flying **** about you, they treat you well before you buy, then become assholes after that.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by motorhead

You guys are missing my point all together. I don't really care what the laws are or what the op is legally obligated to disclose. It's about having some morals. He's not screwing over the dealer he's screwing over a consumer that will end up with that pile. Im in business too and work hard to treat people right. I can sleep well at night knowing that I treat people the way I would expect to be treated. I just can't stand reading or hearing about this kind of crap. If the OP didn't want these kind of comments or this kind of publicity he should have started thread. We didn't know the entire story and never will. I know it really isn't any of our business, but he made it our business by posting. All I know is that the same people that are sticking up for him would be singing a very different tune of the OP had bought this car at a dealership and found these issues. We have threads like that now. I didn't read anything from you people saying "oh, buyer beware. You shouod have done your homework" No, you would be "Lawyer up, Start a petition, don't buy from dealer X.

I've more than said my feelings on this, and Im done. Sorry to keep going on about it. I just can't stand deceiful people no matter who they are.

I'm not sure if I bought a used Camaro from a dealer and somehow found out that at some point there was a roll cage or someone raced it I would be having a fit. Who cares? Does the dealer have to disclose if there was a roll cage? I wouldn't think so. Is the car in working condition and is it safe to drive? Is it rebuilt, does it have flood damage, or is it salvage title? That matters. Are there any problems I should know about? I'm not sure I see the fact that there used to be a roll cage a problem to my safety or a concern. But it sounds like that is where the issue is. Does the fact that their used to be a Roll Cage constitute Frame Damage? That is the only potential issue here that I see. It sounds like the OP asked that question to the CHP and a couple insurance folks and they said no.

I think its great some folks would share all their mods and how they drove the car. Not necessary, but good on you for doing that I suppose. I didn't sell my first or second Camaro to someone and say...by the way, I drove this hard. (It's a Camaro. It wasn't to drive the kids on their school field trip.) It's on the buyer to have the car checked out. And I think it's on the seller to disclose if the car is unsafe for any reason. Nothing in the OPs thread makes me believe his Camaro was unsafe. I think people are reading way too much into this thread. Because we are talking about a roll cage you assume the OP thrashed the hell outta the car and dropped it on the dealer and acted like he only drove it on Sunday to church. If he wanted to be deceitful he would have signed the contract and said "nope, no mods." But when they presented the contract he declined to sign it. The OP asked a simple question...does the fact his Camaro had a roll cage mean that it has frame damage/salvage? That was the point. I think you missed it. But hey...go ahead and create your own backstory on the OP. Be sure to add the horns, tail and pitchfork. Sounds like a real dick.

[KJZ28]

[CHMSC]

Originally Posted by Freddy G

Damn, that sucks man. At least the dealer bought it back without too much hassle. Now, lessons learned. I better check the entire car next time I buy, even its new. Thanks for sharing!

It wasn't easy. It took 4 months of fighting and paying for a car I couldn't drive.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Scottiemac

Does anyone remember the thread with the guy from Hawaii. He had a badly rusted frame part and found it a week or so after purchase and everyone chimed in against the dealer. The problem is who will eventually get the car and even if it's not a safety issue they will probably get a tainted car even if this car can be repaired. Full disclosure counts both ways. The dealer will either sell to someone or get him to buy it back. The car is tainted with this history now and any prospective buyer should know prior to purchasing.

Ha, yes!

Where was "buyer beware" and "you should have inspected it better" in that thread?

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I'm not sure if I bought a used Camaro from a dealer and somehow found out that at some point there was a roll cage or someone raced it I would be having a fit. Who cares? Does the dealer have to disclose if there was a roll cage? I wouldn't think so. Is the car in working condition and is it safe to drive? Is it rebuilt, does it have flood damage, or is it salvage title? That matters. Are there any problems I should know about? I'm not sure I see the fact that there used to be a roll cage a problem to my safety or a concern. But it sounds like that is where the issue is. Does the fact that their used to be a Roll Cage constitute Frame Damage? That is the only potential issue here that I see. It sounds like the OP asked that question to the CHP and a couple insurance folks and they said no.

That's not the issue at all. The issue is misrepresentation. The issue is passing off a former race car... which is now likely to be a ragged out piece of crap... as a normal used car by INTENTIONALLY hiding the evidence.

The issue is intentional misrepresentation.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

That's not the issue at all. The issue is misrepresentation. The issue is passing off a former race car... which is now likely to be a ragged out piece of crap... as a normal used car by INTENTIONALLY hiding the evidence.

The issue is intentional misrepresentation.

Sorry...I must have missed it. Please show me where it says this was a race car. Or are you creating a backstory for the roll cage? I think you may potentially be misrepresenting the OP.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

It was supercharged with a cage. Race car.