The BEST Break for a new car. "very long"

[MIDNIGHT]

Darin,
I didn't see this post till a few days ago, My car had about 1300 miles on it, Ive been running the car hard lately like u said but am i to late?

[Arkanian]

I haven't received my Camaro yet and I do want to do this right when it arrives. There have been many words of advise on this subject from many people on the site, luck so has it my Wife is the Supply Chain Manager for Volvo/Mack Trucks for North America and she has access to discuss these write ups with the engineers there, all of them have completely backed this thread.

All I can say is ty to all the Camaro5 members that are willing to share with the rest of the members, some have different opinions and idea's, thats what makes all of this so wonderful. Take the advise given, do your homework, and make the best educated decission for what works for you and you can't go wrong.

Ty you Darin, you are the man:party0038:

[Desert Rider]

Darin,
My first post, but here goes. My LS-3 arrives in two weeks. I live in the Four Corners and so will be breaking in the engine at 5,500-6,500 ft elevation. I plan to find a long hill to climb (over and over), on a 4-lane road w/ 70 mph limit.

Do you recommend any changes in your "normal" break-in procedure (described above)?

Also, since I won't develop as much engine HP with only 11.73 psia ambient air pressure, do I need to run high octane (91 here) fuel? Would lower octane fuel (87) reduce engine output at this elevation? Any other impacts from low ambient air pressure?

Thanks,
DR

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Damage

Its an LS3. I tried listening with a long metal gun cleaning rod with plastic handle(good trick by the way) and its defiantly louder all the way back on drivers side. Thats why I could hear it so well. Its not loud pinging like somethings broke. Its just a clatter sound like listening with the rod but I can hear it without the rod louder in the one area. I don't expect you to diagnose it, just sitting here by myself all night and this morning thinking about it and wanted to bounce it off someone.

Sometimes lifters bleed down at idle and clack a little bit. This may or may not be the case with you car. Take the engine from idel up to 2000rpm and hold it there. Does the sound go away? Is it just at idle when you here the lifter or valve train clicking? If you take the engine RPMs up slightly and it goes away, its probably nothing to worry about. If it gets louder proportional to RPM get it into the dealer like right now and have them check it out. More than likely its nothing but its better to be safe than sorry

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Desert Rider

Darin,
My first post, but here goes. My LS-3 arrives in two weeks. I live in the Four Corners and so will be breaking in the engine at 5,500-6,500 ft elevation. I plan to find a long hill to climb (over and over), on a 4-lane road w/ 70 mph limit.

Do you recommend any changes in your "normal" break-in procedure (described above)?

Also, since I won't develop as much engine HP with only 11.73 psia ambient air pressure, do I need to run high octane (91 here) fuel? Would lower octane fuel (87) reduce engine output at this elevation? Any other impacts from low ambient air pressure?

Thanks,
DR

Yes climb the hill but dont get your trans temps to high. Dont stay into a hard load for long durations of time over five minutes. At 6500ft elevation your down on power by roughly 25%. Maybe a little longer harder load scenario is just what you need! Just dont over do it.

[prostock69]

Originally Posted by Darin Morgan

You do NOT have to be hard on the car at all. Just load the engine up through the gears. It doesn't have to be brutal. You dont have to yank gears spinning the rears tires up while setting it side ways and sashaying out of a billowing ball of tire smoke all the while bouncing off the RPM limiter. To put it another way, you dont have to do it the way I did. LOL

I am Darin's wife and I was in the car one of the times he was being "brutal" and I can attest he gave our baby no mercy. It was one of the most difficult things I ever had to sit through. This was me in the passenger's seat: . I'm used to babying my cars. Darin was like a jockey with a whip beating his horse to make it go faster.

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Arkanian

I haven't received my Camaro yet and I do want to do this right when it arrives. There have been many words of advise on this subject from many people on the site, luck so has it my Wife is the Supply Chain Manager for Volvo/Mack Trucks for North America and she has access to discuss these write ups with the engineers there, all of them have completely backed this thread.

All I can say is ty to all the Camaro5 members that are willing to share with the rest of the members, some have different opinions and idea's, thats what makes all of this so wonderful. Take the advise given, do your homework, and make the best educated decission for what works for you and you can't go wrong.

Ty you Darin, you are the man:party0038:

Thank you. I do not like misinformation and it seems these days that the internet message boards are a place where it runs rampant from time to time. Just trying to help.

Just got done installing the new headers, high flow CATs and X pipe on the Camaro this evening. This system is from American Racing headers and its awesome! In conjunction with Loud Mouth II exhaust,, this thing sounds like its pissed at the whole world when you lay into the throttle. The extra 30hp doesn't hurt either.

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Desert Rider

Darin,
My first post, but here goes. My LS-3 arrives in two weeks. I live in the Four Corners and so will be breaking in the engine at 5,500-6,500 ft elevation. I plan to find a long hill to climb (over and over), on a 4-lane road w/ 70 mph limit.

Do you recommend any changes in your "normal" break-in procedure (described above)?

Also, since I won't develop as much engine HP with only 11.73 psia ambient air pressure, do I need to run high octane (91 here) fuel? Would lower octane fuel (87) reduce engine output at this elevation? Any other impacts from low ambient air pressure?

Thanks,
DR

Sorry. I did not catch the octane question.

The answer is , I dont know. I dont know for sure so I will do some research and find out if those cars have a high altitude fuel and timing map from the factory. I doubt very seriously that these cars come in a "high Altitude" combination like some of the trucks I owned. I did own an F150 with a high altitude PCM and engine combination from the factory. The engine had 1 point more compresion and the PCM was tuned to try and makeup the deficiency's of high altitude operation. Again, I doubt VERY seriously that these cars have any such tune or combination but I will find out. First and foremost yu should call your dealership and ask for the service manager. The service manager should know what octane and if the PCM is tuned for high altitude operation.

[Desert Rider]

Darin,
My question about octane was based on my assumption that combustion cylinder pressures would be lower in an engine operating at high altitude, since less air (and so less fuel) entering the combustion chamber. Combustion temperatures should be lower, so internal pressures should be lower, so it seems there is less potential for detonation, hence less need for higher octane.

I will plan to visit with my dealer about octane and PCM (what is this?).

I've also ordered a cat-back exhaust, but wonder if it's needed, since less mass flow through the exhaust than normal.

Thanks,
DR

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Desert Rider

Darin,
My question about octane was based on my assumption that combustion cylinder pressures would be lower in an engine operating at high altitude, since less air (and so less fuel) entering the combustion chamber. Combustion temperatures should be lower, so internal pressures should be lower, so it seems there is less potential for detonation, hence less need for higher octane.

I will plan to visit with my dealer about octane and PCM (what is this?).

I've also ordered a cat-back exhaust, but wonder if it's needed, since less mass flow through the exhaust than normal.

Thanks,
DR

I know your thinking is correct and I am almost 100% sure that 87 octane is what your going to be running but you need to clarify that first. When we raced in Denver every year the only thing we did was run a little more compression and a lot more timing due to the slower burn caused by decreased air density. Short of supercharging there is no way to make the same power as the sea level cars. You should really consider that. Its really the only option at that altitude.

As for modifications, any increase in volumetric efficiency is going to equate to more power. What works at sea level works at high altitude. Headers, cams, Cold air intakes, 160F thermostats and all the other things we do to increase engine air flow will have the same effect at high altitude. Some design perimeters change relative to alittude so when ordering headers or any other components make sure to tell them where you live. After you get headers, CAI and all the other mods you want a good tuner will step you up nicely!

If your out to make really good power a supercharge is really the best bet in your situation. Your not leaning on the engine or decreasing it lifespan at all with supercharging up there because your just getting back the power you lost! Well, you might want to make a little more. lol

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Desert Rider

Darin,
My question about octane was based on my assumption that combustion cylinder pressures would be lower in an engine operating at high altitude, since less air (and so less fuel) entering the combustion chamber. Combustion temperatures should be lower, so internal pressures should be lower, so it seems there is less potential for detonation, hence less need for higher octane.

I will plan to visit with my dealer about octane and PCM (what is this?).

I've also ordered a cat-back exhaust, but wonder if it's needed, since less mass flow through the exhaust than normal.

Thanks,
DR

PCM = Powertrain Control module

ECU = Engine Control Module ( ECM or PCM are pretty much interchangeable acronyms)


If you want to know all the acronyms used for the Electronic Fuel Injection system (EFI), its control modules, sub controllers and variables go here,,

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9552

[CV3435]

after reading the link you provided I'm unclear about two things.... in the article it says "Remember that both hard acceleration and hard engine braking (deceleration) are equally important during the break in process"... does this mean throwing it in neutral after running hard through the gears or leaving the car in gear and allowing the engine to decelerate itself? Also It says not to use synthetic oils while in the break-in stage and to use 10w-40 petroleum oils.... This is the typical oil most people use when getting their oil changed right? Just non synthetic?

[Silver Surfer]

Darin,

should the traction control be ON or OFF during break-in??

[chappy48]

Originally Posted by CV3435

after reading the link you provided I'm unclear about two things.... in the article it says "Remember that both hard acceleration and hard engine braking (deceleration) are equally important during the break in process"... does this mean throwing it in neutral after running hard through the gears or leaving the car in gear and allowing the engine to decelerate itself? Also It says not to use synthetic oils while in the break-in stage and to use 10w-40 petroleum oils.... This is the typical oil most people use when getting their oil changed right? Just non synthetic?

He answered your first question already...see below. About your second question, I was wondering myself, but I don't think the mobil 1 that comes in the car will really hurt anything, maybe just take a little longer to break in the engine then with a non-synthetic.

Originally Posted by Darin Morgan

Earlier in this thread a very perceptive individual pointed out to me that the Mototunes web site stated to accelerate and decelerate during the engine break in procedure. This worried me a bit because NO automotive engine should ever be motored down ( engine braked) during break in and I know this from 26 years of engine break in experience on literally thousands of engines. I was very perplexed as to why the guy on the Mototunes web site would say this. Then it came to me like a slap in the face. He builds motorcycle engines! These engines have Nickasil and or “chrome” coated cylinder walls! The rings wear characteristics and ring material itself is far different than what ever is used in an OEM engine. We have used Nickasil in Pro Stock engines before but just about everyone now runs cast iron (Compacted graphite) cylinder walls. The break in procedure for Nickasil is far different in the fact that the rings can loose lubrication, Gaul or micro weld in the ring groove and on the wall itself. For this reason the engine break in procedure is different in the regard to engine braking or “motoring down”. It’s a way of getting oil up to the ring to keep it from wiping out. Molly, PVD or coated faced rings used on cast iron cylinder walls have totally different wear characteristics and do not need the additional oil that comes from motoring down or engine breaking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil
Nikasil is a trademarked electrodeposited oleophilic nickel matrix silicon carbide coating for engine components, mainly piston engine cylinder liners.