Mustangs................

[Ninjak]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Doesnt matter. It might matter to you that the Corvette shouldn't be compared to the GT500, but if you were in the market for a car in the 40-50k price range it would be a different story. You'd look at all the strong competitors, and that includes both of them.


I dont quite know if you understand what your arguing, or that you took what I was saying the right way...


First off, the base corvette most certainly owns the GT500. Its just as fast, (which is basically the only thing the GT500 does...) while having superior handling, and better MPG.

And my Main point being GM could make a Z28, in the 40k region, with somewhere around 475-500hp without REALLY stepping on the Corvette's toes.

Again I think you do not understand the argument. The Vette IS NOT in a muscle car class. Look up the History of the Vette. A BASE vette though impressive is not running faster than a GT500. It run the 1/4 in 12.6~12.5 from what I have seen, while the GT500 runs in 12.4 This is all stock btw.

The STOCK BASE Vette is 436 HP. So please explain why GM would build a car with the same performance as a vette and for half the money ? Now true a z28 could cost the base price of a Vette, but that is as far as it could go.

Building your z28 would truly stomp all over the toes of a Vette zo6, and in truth thats why GM is in the trouble it is now. They been competing in-brand for years. Hell I can name 4 different SUV that are the same truck with different badges under Saturn, GMC, Chevy, and Pontiac.

But alas..that is not the point here. The point is that the Vette is truly a marvel of engineering and honestly until Ford rebuilds a GT40, nothing Ford makes atm will come close to anything besides a base vette. Not stock at least.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Ninjak

Again I think you do not understand the argument. The Vette IS NOT in a muscle car class. Look up the History of the Vette. A BASE vette though impressive is not running faster than a GT500. It run the 1/4 in 12.6~12.5 from what I have seen, while the GT500 runs in 12.4 This is all stock btw.

The STOCK BASE Vette is 436 HP. So please explain why GM would build a car with the same performance as a vette and for half the money ? Now true a z28 could cost the base price of a Vette, but that is as far as it could go.

Building your z28 would truly stomp all over the toes of a Vette zo6, and in truth thats why GM is in the trouble it is now. They been competing in-brand for years. Hell I can name 4 different SUV that are the same truck with different badges under Saturn, GMC, Chevy, and Pontiac.

But alas..that is not the point here. The point is that the Vette is truly a marvel of engineering and honestly until Ford rebuilds a GT40, nothing Ford makes atm will come close to anything besides a base vette. Not stock at least.

Sorry mate your missing the point. Im not arguing that the Corvette is in the 'muscle car class' nor do I think that a .1 second difference over a 1/4 mile is anything but a drivers race.

Unlike the GT500, the Corvette has more going for it than just straight line acceleration. It is a sports car, it will always handle better and feel more nimble being a 2 seater, and therefore always have an appeal towards a different crowd.

Now if you took a Camaro LS3 and gave it 480hp for example, gave it some suspension upgrades, allow the car to run 12.6-12.7, Your not steping on the Corvette's toes, nor (if priced right, a little over 40k) your not nearly half the price. At that speed you'd be able to compete with the GT500, while outhandling the car on a road course. With the right suspension tweaks it would win all the comparos.

And btw. I know Ford people are very willing to compare the GT500 and the SS, but consider the Vette and GT500 are closer in price.

[UCI CamaroFan]

Originally Posted by Zeus

The bullet is a limited edition run of Mustangs sold in either a limited edition 'Bullet Green' or 'Black'.

Basically the Bullet is what the 2010 mustangs got. New cold air intake, some suspension tweaks, strut bar, different exhaust, as well as some interior upgrades... and its limited edition so you know EVERYONE is going to want one...

Bullitt, not Bullet. You're making Steve McQueen roll over in his grave.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by UCI CamaroFan

Bullitt, not Bullet. You're making Steve McQueen roll over in his grave.

I'm so dumb sometimes... Even I should have made that connection...

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by UCI CamaroFan

Bullitt, not Bullet. You're making Steve McQueen roll over in his grave.

Good point.

[Ninjak]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Sorry mate your missing the point. Im not arguing that the Corvette is in the 'muscle car class' nor do I think that a .1 second difference over a 1/4 mile is anything but a drivers race.

Unlike the GT500, the Corvette has more going for it than just straight line acceleration. It is a sports car, it will always handle better and feel more nimble being a 2 seater, and therefore always have an appeal towards a different crowd.

Now if you took a Camaro LS3 and gave it 480hp for example, gave it some suspension upgrades, allow the car to run 12.6-12.7, Your not steping on the Corvette's toes, nor (if priced right, a little over 40k) your not nearly half the price. At that speed you'd be able to compete with the GT500, while outhandling the car on a road course. With the right suspension tweaks it would win all the comparos.

And btw. I know Ford people are very willing to compare the GT500 and the SS, but consider the Vette and GT500 are closer in price.

You do understand that a 2010 GT out handles a SS now ? The GT500 has a upgraded suspension..even more so than the GT..so the handling on is superb. The new GT500 is truly a sports car as well as being a muscle car. Also would you truly want to buy a Z28 with 480hp ? We are talking crank numbers correct ? Of course they will upgrade dampers and ect, But in truth just how much more of a upgrade can you give it ? The SS already have big brakes and a IRS

Its a fine fine dance GM must negotiate to pull this off. There is a reason Camaro has come and gone...and is now back again. Its not as easy when you have a car looming performance wise right above the head of a similar with the same performance.

No matter how you slice it up, GM could never make the Camaro the equal or near equal of the Vette, while Ford have no such qualms. The GT will always be a step below a GT500, but not in such of a way to that the GT or GT500 sales would be hurt.

[Jamestwilliams]

Originally Posted by Ninjak

Again I think you do not understand the argument. The Vette IS NOT in a muscle car class. Look up the History of the Vette. A BASE vette though impressive is not running faster than a GT500. It run the 1/4 in 12.6~12.5 from what I have seen, while the GT500 runs in 12.4 This is all stock btw.

The STOCK BASE Vette is 436 HP. So please explain why GM would build a car with the same performance as a vette and for half the money ? Now true a z28 could cost the base price of a Vette, but that is as far as it could go.

Building your z28 would truly stomp all over the toes of a Vette zo6, and in truth thats why GM is in the trouble it is now. They been competing in-brand for years. Hell I can name 4 different SUV that are the same truck with different badges under Saturn, GMC, Chevy, and Pontiac.

But alas..that is not the point here. The point is that the Vette is truly a marvel of engineering and honestly until Ford rebuilds a GT40, nothing Ford makes atm will come close to anything besides a base vette. Not stock at least.

The Corvette though used for drag racing is built for circuit racing that involves using the steering wheel and brakes, the GT500 is not. The GT500 is built with drag racing in mind while the Corvette is built with track racing in mind and blows the doors off the GT500 on a race track, it's not even a remotely close race. However at a .1 second deficit in a drag race the Corvette vs GT500 is a toss up with real drivers in the real world. The Camaro could have a hundred horsepower on the Corvette and it would still not compete on a race track it's just too big and heavy in comparison. People have to learn that horse power is not the only factor when camparing performance. That's why in the 60s and 70s the Corvette and the Camaro had similar engine packages, the Corvette was always the better choice for circuit racing but the Camaro could hold it's own on the drag strip.

[Jamestwilliams]

Originally Posted by Ninjak

You do understand that a 2010 GT out handles a SS now ? The GT500 has a upgraded suspension..even more so than the GT..so the handling on is superb. The new GT500 is truly a sports car as well as being a muscle car. Also would you truly want to buy a Z28 with 480hp ? We are talking crank numbers correct ? Of course they will upgrade dampers and ect, But in truth just how much more of a upgrade can you give it ? The SS already have big brakes and a IRS

Its a fine fine dance GM must negotiate to pull this off. There is a reason Camaro has come and gone...and is now back again. Its not as easy when you have a car looming performance wise right above the head of a similar with the same performance.

No matter how you slice it up, GM could never make the Camaro the equal or near equal of the Vette, while Ford have no such qualms. The GT will always be a step below a GT500, but not in such of a way to that the GT or GT500 sales would be hurt.

Actually without the track pack the Mustang GT does not out handle the SS. As a caveot the "Track pack" equipped Mustang GT must be compared on a perfect surace to even keep up with the SS, soon as the road is a little bumpy the superior independant suspension of the SS holds together without problem while the live rear axel in the mustang hops and bucks causing the mustang to loose it's line. By the way most race tracks don't have a perfect surface. The GT with "track pack" is only marginally better than the SS while the SS offers a far better overall ride.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Ninjak

You do understand that a 2010 GT out handles a SS now ? The GT500 has a upgraded suspension..even more so than the GT..so the handling on is superb. The new GT500 is truly a sports car as well as being a muscle car. Also would you truly want to buy a Z28 with 480hp ? We are talking crank numbers correct ? Of course they will upgrade dampers and ect, But in truth just how much more of a upgrade can you give it ? The SS already have big brakes and a IRS

Its a fine fine dance GM must negotiate to pull this off. There is a reason Camaro has come and gone...and is now back again. Its not as easy when you have a car looming performance wise right above the head of a similar with the same performance.

No matter how you slice it up, GM could never make the Camaro the equal or near equal of the Vette, while Ford have no such qualms. The GT will always be a step below a GT500, but not in such of a way to that the GT or GT500 sales would be hurt.

i agree that it would have to be a 'fine dance' but if it was done right its possible. Making it a limited edition makes it even more likely.


As for the handling... yes the GT>SS but only with the Track Package. Which btw isn't availible yet..


The z28 (if they build it) should have some sort of weight reduction, that alone combined with further suspension upgrades should be enough to trump the GT500. The 480 was a rough estimate, say 500 to be safe.

[Georgie]

i don't think there's going to be a z28, heck there may not be a GT500 after 2012

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Georgie

i don't think there's going to be a z28, heck there may not be a GT500 after 2012

Id love to see an 'enthusiast' version, like ferrari's scuda.

Just the body, and everything to keep it street legal. No sound deadening. 6 Speed short shifter, racing seats, and toss out everything else. No radio, plastic windows, no back seats , the works.

[ironpeddler]

Originally Posted by DeathChill

No idea to be honest. The Camaro gets 3.73 gears in 2011 so that should help at least.

What is the 2010 Camaro running now? And this might be a stupid question but i'm not a car genius, why is 3.73 better than whatever it is running now?

[GTAHVIT]

I know I've contributed...

But lets get back to the 5.0

thanks.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

I know I've contributed...

But lets get back to the 5.0

thanks.

According to 'my sources' the 5.0L will accompany a 6.2 BOSS engine into the Ford lineup in the next year or so. The 6.2's numbers are not confirmed, though a racing version of the engine makes 500hp...

The 5.0L has been confirmed to make ''at least'' 400hp and 375lb/ft, and that combined with a 6-speed is what is expected for production.