Cam install related questions

[jjterminella]

First of all I would like to say that I am new when it comes to assembling engines so please bare with me. I haven't ever done anything like this before but I learn quick and have a pretty good mechanical sense about things. I have done a bunch of research and I know there is plenty of threads about this but I just want to get some questions answered.
I daily drive my car and everything is stock on it aside from headers, cai, and a dyno tune. Obviously more HP is a good thing but not if it means that im sacrificing reliability. Im really a go big or go home kinda guy so the tsp f-35 stage 4 cam really interests me but I understand that bigger is not always better.

1) what real differences are there between the tsp stage 3 and the stage 4 cam? is the stage 4 any different than the stage 3 when it comes to daily drivability? (I understand that it will be different to drive and it will take some getting used to.) is there any increased risk of unreliability for the stage 4 over the stage 3?

2) realistically, how bad is the melling oil pump install? is dropping the pan absolutely required? is the oil pump even worth messing with or is it just something that people change out as insurance.

3) this is probably the one I am most confused about. Pushrods. Since I have a 100% stock engine, is there a need to measure for my pushrods? I have heard the phrase "smaller base circle" on some of the new cams. how do I determine how much smaller the base circle is on a cam than the stock one and is that the only variable in my scenario if I don't plan on changing out the rockers or the lifters? the heads hasn't been machined and I still have the stock head gaskets. I plan on getting the tsp dual spring cam kit with the .660 springs. Does that effect the pushrod length?

4) how far is it safe to drive the car after installing the cam without a tune? 50 miles ok?

5) kinda off topic but is it possible to shoot flames out the back of a non-catted npp exhaust

any feedback is greatly appreciated.

[lionssfan]

Look at brian tooley cam, spring kit. I bought theres because you don't have to deal with the pushrod measurement. but I would consider the bronze bushing kit for the rocker arms. get ride of the stock needle bearings. I did the stage 3 blower cam three bolt cam sprocket. and new chain 75000 miles and new crankshaft sprocket. I wish I would of done the cr5 chain upgrade instead of the stock heave duty chain. I did the new mellings pump. Its just good practice considering my mileage and upgrades later that way the front of the motor is done under the timing chain cover. and yes I would drop the pan to do the melling pump install correctly. I ended up replacing my pickup tube because it was such a pain in the ass getting it out of the way of the pump. You have to loosen the cradle mounts and lift the engine to remove the pan. My pan was leaking previously plus the new pickup tube had to be replaced. but in the end I did what was necessary to make sure things were installed correctly. I took the time needed and spent the money that was needed. I don't believe in short cuts here. built it to last and be done it. just my two cents worth. Oh go with the ls2 tensioner also.

[1fast]

Things to consider on any cam and how cars gonna be used. Attached good info from comp cams

[Juiced1]

Being a 1LE you should have a manual car. You can get away with more cam on a manual compared to an automatic. I would have it tuned immediately but you should be able to limp to the shop that will tune it. Most cams run something near a stock base circle so the stock push rod length is fine but always double check when ordering. We usually don't recommend changing the oil pump if you have a good one and decent mileage. If they are going to go bad they usually do so early on. That being said we have some pretty good deals on TSP cam stuff and we can also order BTR cams too. We'd love to help you out with your build.

[go_go_gadget88]

Originally Posted by jjterminella

First of all I would like to say that I am new when it comes to assembling engines so please bare with me. I haven't ever done anything like this before but I learn quick and have a pretty good mechanical sense about things. I have done a bunch of research and I know there is plenty of threads about this but I just want to get some questions answered.
I daily drive my car and everything is stock on it aside from headers, cai, and a dyno tune. Obviously more HP is a good thing but not if it means that im sacrificing reliability. Im really a go big or go home kinda guy so the tsp f-35 stage 4 cam really interests me but I understand that bigger is not always better.

1) what real differences are there between the tsp stage 3 and the stage 4 cam? is the stage 4 any different than the stage 3 when it comes to daily drivability? (I understand that it will be different to drive and it will take some getting used to.) is there any increased risk of unreliability for the stage 4 over the stage 3?

2) realistically, how bad is the melling oil pump install? is dropping the pan absolutely required? is the oil pump even worth messing with or is it just something that people change out as insurance.

3) this is probably the one I am most confused about. Pushrods. Since I have a 100% stock engine, is there a need to measure for my pushrods? I have heard the phrase "smaller base circle" on some of the new cams. how do I determine how much smaller the base circle is on a cam than the stock one and is that the only variable in my scenario if I don't plan on changing out the rockers or the lifters? the heads hasn't been machined and I still have the stock head gaskets. I plan on getting the tsp dual spring cam kit with the .660 springs. Does that effect the pushrod length?

4) how far is it safe to drive the car after installing the cam without a tune? 50 miles ok?

5) kinda off topic but is it possible to shoot flames out the back of a non-catted npp exhaust

any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Hello. After a lot of debate myself, I ended up going with the TSP stage 3 cam and ported head package, so I have some experience with it.

1) It looked like it was only about ~5hp difference between the Stage 3 and the stage 4 F-35 cam. I chose to give up that 5 hp to give myself a little more PTV clearance. That stage 4 is running pretty tight, and since a manual has a chance for mechanical overrev, I elected to give myself a bit more breathing room. There is probably not a lot of driveability difference between the two, as they are both pretty rowdy cams. I don't daily mine, so that wasn't a concern. If I did, I may have dropped back to a stage 2 instead. The 3.91 gears helped a lot, but she still doesn't like to be putted around like it would with stock valvetrain

2) I think many change out the oil pump, because when doing a cam swap, you have done like 90% of the work to change it out anyhow. Most would rather spend a bit more doing new oil pump/timing chain while in there, rather than go back in due to a failure there later (if you're lucky, as a failure here on a cammed vehicle means many other things could be FUBAR at that point). I personally went with a melling stock replacement pump, GM heavy duty chain, and LS2 style tensioner, and mine only had 21k miles on it at the time. Just didn't want to do it again.

3) There is ALWAYS a need to measure the pushrods. I don't think any reputable engine builder would say otherwise. Now, most of these companies will sell everything as a kit, that would include pushrods that would MOST LIKELY work with your setup. My stage 3 kit, for instance, came with 7.400" pushrods. Talking with TSP, they said that since everything was stock, and I was only having .005" taken off the heads when they did the porting, that I would most likely need these. Wanting to do this right, I still measured after I got the heads back and on the car. I ended up being fine with the rods they sent (and they said they would exchange if I ended up needing different), but the only way to know that for sure is to measure them yourself on your specific setup. You could probably slap in what they give you and be fine, but IMO this is a tremendous amount of work and money to invest, to not take the relatively small amount of time it takes to measure your PR length correctly.

4) I would plan on having it tuned immediately, and limping it to the tuner. Mine was personally not running very good. Took a while for it to learn to idle well when putting a few heat cycles on the springs, and he said the fueling was WAY off

5) No idea on this one, sorry. But i'm interested lol

[PepeLePew]

OP - I agree with the advice of the others on this thread. As far as flames go, they are definitely possible but it depends on the conditions and the tune. I have a similar setup as you but I am running a variant of the TSP stage 2 cam 229/242 with 112 LSA and .600 lift.

I got flames on the dyno at the end of the video...

https://youtu.be/E0De1c0XwmQ

[jjterminella]

UPDATE

I went with the TSP stage 3 cam. Everything went smooth and I ended up changing out the oil pump to the Mellings 295. The car picked up 97whp putting me at 530rwhp with just a cold air intake and catless headers. Still got 23 mpg on the interstate for the ~40 miles home.

[J Rod]

Originally Posted by jjterminella

UPDATE

I went with the TSP stage 3 cam. Everything went smooth and I ended up changing out the oil pump to the Mellings 295. The car picked up 97whp putting me at 530rwhp with just a cold air intake and catless headers. Still got 23 mpg on the interstate for the ~40 miles home.

You must've been on the same dyno that WeSS1LEy used the first time.

[jjterminella]

Originally Posted by J Rod

You must've been on the same dyno that WeSS1LEy used the first time.

I used the same dyno both times.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by jjterminella

UPDATE

I went with the TSP stage 3 cam. Everything went smooth and I ended up changing out the oil pump to the Mellings 295. The car picked up 97whp putting me at 530rwhp with just a cold air intake and catless headers. Still got 23 mpg on the interstate for the ~40 miles home.

Much respect!!! Awesome gains for heads and cam!

[PepeLePew]

Wait I just reread this, you got 97whp gain out of cam only... dang! Was your baseline before or after the headers? I never had a baseline but if I assume it was about 375 or 380, I picked up about 86-91whp after doing headers and a cam. I am still 64 less than you so now I am very jealous.

[weSS1LEy]

Originally Posted by J Rod

You must've been on the same dyno that WeSS1LEy used the first time.

Haha awesome! True story. That dyno was super happy! Oh well. I certainly didn’t gain 97hp. In fact from the old dyno to the new , I only gained 6 horsepower. And for $6000 Canadian, you do the math. That’s $1000 per hp lol!! Canada sucks!!

[weSS1LEy]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

Wait I just reread this, you got 97whp gain out of cam only... dang! Was your baseline before or after the headers? I never had a baseline but if I assume it was about 375 or 380, I picked up about 86-91whp after doing headers and a cam. I am still 64 less than you so now I am very jealous.

Sorry pepe now I’m on the other side of the fence saying no way in hell are those numbers right.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by weSS1LEy

Sorry pepe now I’m on the other side of the fence saying no way in hell are those numbers right.

Haha probably right the 530 is overstated. But he said he used the same dyno for his baseline to measure the gain. If the gain was cam only that is incredible. Maybe it was headers and cam and that would be a more reasonable gain.

Anyway, weSS1LEy, you’re still a factory freak in my book... I love that 1LE!!!